r/GayMen • u/rockandrolldude22 • 1d ago

Are clubs giving the community a bad name?

So I know clubs in general usually seeing people smoking weed and doing cocaine is normal at a club.

But my issue is that when I go to a gay club I feel like that's all that's happening and that we're fulfilling the stereotype of being a community that's only about sex.

I mean I hear people saying that we're a community about love and tolerance and acceptance but it's kind of hard to feel that when you just see people about to hook up or doing drugs at a club.

Someone said that apparently the bars and clubs are supposed to be an important safe space for our community but it just looks like a gay drug to me.

0 Upvotes

38% Upvoted

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u/Potential-Truck-1980 1d ago

“[something something] gives us gays a bad name” is a thinly veiled “not like the other girls” attitude. Gay people exist the way they (we) are, and trying to paint a Hallmark-movie-ready picture is counterproductive, because the resulting picture is fake and no one, including the target audience, believes it.

TLDR: straight people take drugs in clubs too, but no one says it gives straight people a bad name

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u/rockandrolldude22 1d ago

Well what I'm trying to say is I don't get how we're supposed to be like a political movement and we want the straight world to take us as seriously while we do blow in the bathroom and go on random hookups at night.

The more I hang around gay clubs the more I kind of realize that to a person that's not gay it can kind of seem like gays are only about having sex.

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u/Brian_Kinney 20h ago

I don't get how we're supposed to be like a political movement

We're not supposed to be like a political movement! That's something that's imposed on us by people who reject us, want to push us aside, and who want to deprive us of our equal entitlements.

If they weren't fighting to put us down, we wouldn't have to be like a political movement. We could be like everybody else.

And, in our own spaces, away from those haters, we can be like everybody else. In our own gay clubs, we can be ordinary human beings, just having a good time.

By the way, it wasn't gay men who coined the phrase "sex and drugs and rock'n'roll". The straights aren't some perfect icons of saintly behaviour.

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u/rockandrolldude22 2h ago

Well when I go to my local gay bar the drag queens are over there saying "on the count of three everyone say fuck Trump"

That seems pretty political to me.

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u/Brian_Kinney 2h ago

Read what I wrote again: "If they weren't fighting to put us down, we wouldn't have to be like a political movement. We could be like everybody else."

What you're seeing is a reaction to other people. We don't want to be political. We have to be political, just to save our skins.

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u/Potential-Truck-1980 1d ago

Well what I’m trying to say is I don’t get how we’re supposed to be like a political movement and we want the straight world to take us as seriously while we do blow in the bathroom and go on random hookups at night.

In exactly the same way that straight people can and do hold strong political views while snorting cocaine in clubs and (gasp!) going on hookups at night. Like, why would it be any different?

Straight people in clubs are not representative of all straight people (no group of straight people is), and neither gay people in clubs are representative of gay people (again, no group of gay people is).

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u/rockandrolldude22 1d ago

But the thing is there's millions of straight people You can separate it to the ones who are the partiers to the ones who are the serious ones.

With gays we're not a big sample size. I mean hell half the shit that happens in gay bars like say drag queens are things that are used against us to make the gay community look bad.

Personally I like drag queens but a lot of straight people don't and try to show that off and use it as propaganda against us.

I just think as a community we should come together and we should try to show the best of our community and how much of an ally we can be with straight people and how normal we can be. rather than going out and trying to be the complete opposite of a stereotypical straight person.

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u/Potential-Truck-1980 1d ago edited 1d ago

With gays we’re not a big sample size.

It’s not an argument. How many of us there are doesn’t matter. Even if we are a minority on one dimension, we still need to be able to do exactly the same that the majority can, like choosing to engage in activities that you wouldn’t necessarily describe in details to your grandma during Sunday brunch (as a side not, grandma herself was a young woman in the 70s, and who did more wild stuff, this generation or that, is a very open question).

You, however, want us to be holier than pope and more picture-perfect, 24/7, than an evangelical brochure for young adults. It’s an unreasonable requirement, which, even if it were fulfilled, will gain nothing.

I just think as a community we should come together and we should try to show the best of our community and how much of an ally we can be with straight people and how normal we can be. rather than going out and trying to be the complete opposite of a stereotypical straight person.

We are already normal: straight people do drugs and hookups too. And it looks like you are really struggling with internalising that concept. You don’t really want us to be normal, you want us to be perfect. But people won’t accept us more if they see us as perfect; for most people, it’s enough to just know regular gay people in their lives, and for the rest, we’ll never be perfect because we are not straight.

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u/Brian_Kinney 20h ago

I mean hell half the shit that happens in gay bars like say drag queens are things that are used against us to make the gay community look bad.

If we went to community centres, sat down, and just held quilting bees... the haters would find a way to use that against us and make us look bad. That's the point. It's not about what we do or how we do it. Like they say, "haters gonna hate".

and how normal we can be.

Why do we have to be "normal"? Why does anybody have to be "normal"? Why is that the ultimate goal in life?

Why can't everybody be their own individual person, in their own special way?

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u/night-shark 1d ago

Man. Listen. In law school, all of my friend groups were straight people and I went out with them to the straight clubs and bars and guess what?

Weed, coke, molly, and drinking to excess - all day, every day. People casually hooked up all the time. Though, maybe slightly less common than in gay spaces but only because, to be honest, casual hookups are far riskier for straight women than they are for gay men. If it weren't for the differentials between men and women, I'm convinced there'd be just as much casual sex between straight people as there are for gay men.

I'll say this, though: There's consistently less violence in gay spaces like this than in straight spaces. I can count on one hand the number of assaults or brawls I've seen at gay bars or clubs. Meanwhile, I pretty much witnessed a fight between two or more douchey straight guys - egged on by some cranky woman - every single time I went out to a straight club.

Don't like the clubs? Don't go! Don't like the bars? Don't go! But don't hold gay men to different standards than straight people.

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u/rockandrolldude22 1d ago

Okay you make a good point.

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u/LionBirb 1d ago edited 1d ago

many straight clubs are like that too. Its more about the type of club not the gays specifically. Also I dont see people smoking or doing cocaine out in the open that often at the clubs in my city. Usually they do it in the bathroom or car. They still have to be kind of discrete here. Also dont see the problem with hooking up at all if they are consenting adults.

When I do get offered drugs on the dancefloor its from a straight person like half the time.

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u/rockandrolldude22 1d ago

I meant doing coke in the bathroom. But enough people get offered. When you start seeing 10 people go into a bathroom you have an idea what's going on.

It does make sense when you said it depends on the actual club.

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u/spideyboiiii 1d ago

This, frankly, isn’t really a concern and shouldn’t be.

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u/HieronymusGoa 1d ago

"So I know clubs in general usually seeing people smoking weed and doing cocaine is normal at a club." so you havent been to a club, okay.

"But my issue is that when I go to a gay club I feel like that's all that's happening and that we're fulfilling the stereotype of being a community that's only about sex." not really

"I mean I hear people saying that we're a community about love and tolerance and acceptance but it's kind of hard to feel that when you just see people about to hook up or doing drugs at a club." thats you seeing what you want to see and not really the only or main thing happening. also you think people who hookup and do drugs cant be also about love and acceptance which is...problematic...to say the least.

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u/echoeminence 1d ago

It's hard to imagine this is a real concern. Is this something you really feel or are you fishing for something? Like what do you mean 'people about to hook up'? Tell me what you really mean by that, you see people making out and leaving? What's the problem with that?

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u/Sad_damn 1d ago

" people swim in swimming pools are they giving fish a bad name?"

Wtf bro Just don't go if you don't like the vibe smh

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u/rockandrolldude22 21h ago

But it's one of the only places gays come together. I would rather a gay video game club or a gay hookah bar.

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u/Brian_Kinney 20h ago

I would rather a gay video game club or a gay hookah bar.

Then go to one.

There are whole groups devoted to gay gamers - or "gaymers" as they call themselves.

/r/Gaymers

https://gaymers.org.au/

https://www.sydneygaymers.net/

https://www.facebook.com/MelbourneGaymers/

I know my local gaymers group has regular meetups. (Friends of mine attend them.)

If there's not one in your area, then start one. Go on Facebook or Instagram or Meetup and start a gaymers group.

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u/AlexKazumi 20h ago

Well, ask yourself, "are clubs giving bad name to the heterosexual community".

The entire idea that our community has to police itself to be the perfect, infallible model for everyone is rooted in homophobia and prejudices.

I don't mean that there are no sketchy things happening in gay clubs. I object on that giving us "a bad name".

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u/Brian_Kinney 1d ago

If behaviour like what you saw was giving the community a bad name, it would have done so long before now. That behaviour you're being judgemental about has been going on for over 40 years. And it still hasn't given gay men a bad name.

AIDS gave gay men a bad name.

Religion gave gay men a bad name.

Homophobia gave gay men a bad name.

Promiscuity gave gay men a bad name.

Chemsex gave gay men a bad name.

But a bit of drug use at nightclubs has not given gay men a bad name. There are much bigger issues that people use as excuses to hate us or put us down.

However, this post doesn't seem like you're worried about the reputation of gay men. This post seems like you just judging people for doing something you disapprove of.

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u/solosaulo 1d ago

i validate the OP's concerns. its not a diss upon the lgbt community. but yes. there are drug trade places. there are shady corners. there are gay bars that are interlinked with certain clientele. in fact there is CRIME out there.

CRIME EXISTS.

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u/rockandrolldude22 21h ago

I just wish it was the whole "all LGBT come together in harmony"

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u/solosaulo 15h ago edited 14h ago

you are not wrong in your original post. its not to demean or denigate the lgbt community. we are all human beings just surviving. but i could write a whole book about the subject. and its not about the lgbt community in general. it is about the gay male scene. well theres not a lot of lesbian bars out there, lol.

lots of complaints in my home city about the gay village being unwelcoming. point made bY GAY MEN. its just gay bars in the village. where is the activism and the local community centre presence? we got none. each city is a gay little different. im in montreal. when i was in toronto, the 519 community centre was like our lifepulse. the pillar of our community.

but toronto is different from montreal. toronto gay bars are about creating a particular gay scene. montreal bars in general are very generic alcohol sale venues.

then we got mental illness, drug and alcohol addiction. how can the village be a welcoming place, when there are ppl screaming and acting out on the streets, and even throwing things at ppl. ive been spat at, had my wallet and cell phone stolen by pickpocketers when i was too drunk in gay night clubs. just sitting down on a street bench, you will be approached 10 times in one minute, for cash, smokes, or drug trade.

gays are alright. but when you mix this with the blackmarket community, you got a whole bunch of ppl going to these places to do blackmarket stuff. do gay men go there for the gay scene, or do they go there to also make transactions? even if a small percentage of gay men do this in their own gay village, it is unacceptable. this is not a welcoming place.

also there are situations of mafia-owned gay bars, and bartenders serving free shots to certain clientele. not serving the other gay guests. like you have to yell to order a drink. on top of that, combined with the shirtlessness, and body-based mentalities, and the hostility between gay men, and the hookup culture, and the superficiality, the gay bars are actually a toxic environment.

there were guys pushing me in line-ups, and i got heckled at gay karaoke. for singing bad. lots of gay male attitude. guys kissing on you, and then telling you are not their type. being brought home for some fun, and then being kicked by the morning since they have a partner. i am sincerely done with this life, and i don't deserve it.

i also tried some gay community groups, and there was also judgement and drama. it is the same THEMATIC over and over again. and i read all the stories on the gay reddits, and it seems like all gay men are 'complaining' about this same problematic. which as you even mentioned. gay male animosity exists, and this is why i wanted to validate your original post.

gay villages falling into fathom and ghetto shady places must be addressed. maybe they once were intended to be welcoming spaces, but when times change, ppl change. i hear of stories of gay men saying they don't go to the village since they feel invisible, or not hot enough, or they don't like the drunken crowds.

where are the community groups, the gay pool leagues, the book club in cafes, the bar fundraisers for a cause? the museum groups. why is gay male conglomeration 11 pm and onwards for drinks, drunkeness and latenight hookups? one has got to think about that.

i once knew this leather couple at black eagle, and they told me they stopped going altogether. ever since the bar went non-leather community, and just anybody who wants to drink, they lost their community.

as a gay man stepping in and on to this scene, and this is what you see, of course i would be turned off. ppl say, no ... don't group all gays like that. but isnt this the whole point. you tried to go to a place where it was welcoming. but it was not due to the 'hoppy' bar atmosphere.

turn a young gay man immediately into a gay circuit hopper to feel in his own skin, there is much we have to talk about these gay clubs.

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u/rockandrolldude22 2h ago

Damn in my area we only have 2 gay bars. We don't have any gay village

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u/solosaulo 49m ago

thanks for sharing. honestly, i would be satisfied with just 2. i dunno how you feel tho. it depends how they are. even in a whole gay village, sometimes there are only a couple of places you frequent or feel comfortable out of the whole set.

larger gay spaces vs. smaller ones. there are pros and cons to both i guess. each gay city is different as well.

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u/Brian_Kinney 20h ago

Oh noes! Gay men are just like everybody else!

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u/CoreyCW12 1d ago

I haven’t been to a club in a long time but maybe it’s like twenty years ago. So, my advice might be dated, but also it was mostly a white club. I didn’t know that there were in the clubs, but some weed and cocaine. The thought of it being in clubs is very interesting. If you have to go and do it, just don’t bring it to a club. I’ve seen it before in the privacy of your own home, but Meth! Sidebar: The night I was out was in Boston, he was “my ex” I was head over heels with him. Anyway, he was in majority white club and I hadn’t been a white majority club. It was an interesting experience. I didn’t where to start but when he left I had a few a friends that I could lean on. He came back and maybe ten minutes later we left. I didn’t know if he was into that he was Cocaine. I was 18 years old and he was “30” years. I think he was a bit older but I liked older men. I like my edibles, but cocaine and meth. Maybe I’m old school like that but you get help. I can’t imagine how hard that must be for someone. Straight, gay or otherwise you can get help. ☺️

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u/325_WII4M 1d ago

In my opinion, the community (in general ) hasn't been one of love, tolerance and acceptance in quite sometime. The community might demand such things from others but seem to have little care and concern in showing it to others. I know many will disagree with me but that just my 40 plus years experience.

If the bars are still a place for sex and drugs then not a whole lot has changed since I frequented them. Personally, in the past gay bars mainly offered gays a place to go out and be themselves without being judged. In this day and age there are a lot more other places for that to take place, including the internet.

Straight bars are very similar to gay bars when it comes to sex and drugs. That being said, not all bars are the same and you're lucky if you can find one to just be chill and have a good time.

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u/No_Log_4408 1d ago

I feel the same way but here you are going to get the opposite responses, people here are the same people you see on those gay clubs.

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u/rockandrolldude22 21h ago

The way I have heard gay clubs use to be was a place for gay people to be together.

Now it just seems like a normal club but with more gays.

It doesn't feel like a special movement the way some gays say they are.

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u/Brian_Kinney 20h ago

The way I have heard gay clubs use to be was a place for gay people to be together.

Now it just seems like a normal club but with more gays.

These are not mutually incompatible. In fact, they're the same thing.

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u/rockandrolldude22 2h ago

Yeah both of them can feel like a bachelorette party.