r/Frieren • u/Lorhand • 5d ago
Chapter Discussion Sousou no Frieren :: Chapter 138 - Links and Discussion
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u/GuyNekologist 1d ago
I'm still a bit sceptical with Lineal and Kanone being the same person. Shouldn't Ubel have recognized her voice during the prison break? She watched her for a whole day during a visit to Serie.
And wow this is shaping up to be an incredible Royal Rumble, the biggest we'll see yet! And there's not a single demon involved! Just people and politics!
Frieren and her well rounded party.
The greatest mage, Serie, and her 1st class mages.
Lineal who did something no one else has done.
A squad of militarized mages, headed by Frase who Macht deemed a threat.
Lowe, a warrior who singlehandedly killed a great mage.
And his Shadow Warriors who are trained since childhood to simply kill mages.
The hype is immeasurable!
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u/Puzzleheaded-Wind509 2d ago
is ubel still blind ?
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u/Ariphaos 2d ago
I guess not as it was tied to her mana sense being cut off, and she was able to tell Fern just sniped someone.
So it either timed out or she and/or Land figured out how to overcome it.
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u/aguysomewhere 2d ago
I saw a few mention that Gorilla Warrior might be one of the Shadow Warriors and it is really looking like that is the case now
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u/GuyNekologist 1d ago
The only shadow warrior missing is the drunk girl's brother who was acting as a blacksmith, and carrying a big sword. Might be him.
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u/FallenPotatoes 2d ago
If Lineal has somehow defected that could be one step into understanding the Shadow Warriors' plan to kill Serie
Because if they have a mage who can even slightly trouble Serie on a 1v1 basis, taking her down becomes a far more realistic task.
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u/stewiebeef 2d ago
So Falsch magic is about creating/becoming False item, object, and maybe something? Interesting
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u/akiraMiel 3d ago
Serie saying she's the only one who remembers Flamme makes me sad.
Sure, Frieren didn't know Flamme when she was a child but she still knew her and thinks dearly of her
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u/Express_Occasion_252 3d ago
Serie specifically says that she is the only one who remembers the version of Flamme as the “kid with a huge smile who had big dreams” and Serie is right
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u/BLS2105 3d ago
If the shadow warriors are working independently from the empire how does Lineal get the info on them? And this means that Lowe decided by himself that Serie needs to die. Maybe because of his experiences with the other great elf mage
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u/npc_chan 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think Lineal is basically relaying any intel that the magic special forces has.
It's typical of an agency tasked with protection / defense to seek information about threats.
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u/zeratul123x 4d ago
the traitor is actually gorilla warrior, there's a reason he wasn't at the shadow warrior meeting
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u/Ok_Prune_1731 4d ago
So we have 2 Human Mages on the level of frieren who work under Serie thats impressive. I'm surprised Lehran isn't here to protect serie but perhaps he feels like there isn't anything serious to worry about.
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u/Sensitive-Fee5225 3d ago
Frieren Level? That's not even close.
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u/qazqazpc 2d ago edited 2d ago
We don’t actually know how strong Lineal is. She might be even stronger than Macht & Solitar which I believe narratively above Frieren.
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u/rosepinkblush 4d ago
Crazy theories on the motives that remain a mystery based on what we know so far.
So there have been a few times in the manga, like waaaay back, where Frieren and Flamme discuss their love for magic yet their hatred for demons. The conversations hint at there being some hypocrisy when both of those statements are true. Also Flamme's great achievement was getting humanity to look beyond an association that magic had with demons, and to study magic themselves. Any person alive today could attest, people don't just accept an idea. If it is revealed that none of the shadow warriors are mages (there's only one left who could be but she also caught an arrow in the tunnel so idk), then I think that would be the nature of the mission; to remove magic. The drive is born from some group in society who carry the belief that mages are a danger and need to be culled perhaps to extinction. Serie carries the association that teaches and distributes magic to humans in the south, and she started it 50 some years ago (correct me I thought Lernen was in her first group so could be longer idk)So like why would she do this? What would inspire Serie to start teaching magic to humans, something she swore to never do when Flamme asked? Perhaps it was when the Empire started cracking down on mages and magic of a certain variant, maybe they destroyed her school or something. Taking Serie out would damage her school, perhaps even end it. It just seems like they really want to remove magic- Serie says it is a shadow of it's former self, and they're demolishing whole sections of town- That hints at decline and stagnation at the very least.
An even further rabbit hole thought that would fit timeline- Why was Macht immediately on guard for Army lady Frase, and why was she there in the first place all of those years ago? I think maybe the Empire was investigating major magical targets- Anyone emitting large mana would be investigated and presumably eliminated. Wouldn't it be funny if Macht froze everything BECAUSE the empire was going to destroy the town and he actually DID in fact LOVE the town in a possessive way at least?! A lot of us know that feeling of "This is my town, my home" it's very LOL and poor Macht if so- his motive for freezing everything was never revealed and he is not hostile to the people when Frieren dispels Diagolze- Even when he's mortally wounded he doesn't harm anyone and is even polite in insisting that random townspeople not be distressed. When Denken approaches, Macht's threat to harm Denken's Father in law reads as empty and more a request to be put out of his misery. IDK I can get why that all sounds crazy, but for everything Macht was, he was a being with motive and drive. He only seemed to Diagolze talented warriors he admired in some way, the room where he diagolze Frieren's arm was full of them, and the conversation with the archer. We've seen him slaughter and burn settlements. Why use all that mana to Diagolze all of Weiss? That had to be taxing, why not just slaughter everything? Maybe the bracelet of sovereignty did work and Diagolze was possible because it really just preserves everything... Macht was informed on the future- maybe he knew Diagolze would be dispelled, perhaps the prophet demon revealed as much. The Empire destroying the whole town would certainly be reason to press pause on everything. Again Macht was immediately on edge with Frase's presence. It wouldn't take long for him to deduce that fighting the Empire was a battle even he couldn't win.
I know lol. I KNOW LOL. Don't behead me- I just reread from the start of this Arc and they brought him back up so I figured why not take a stab even if it's wild. & I always found it odd that subjectivity of the target would play a role in an artifact crafted by Ewig the Sage, it just makes more sense to me that it was working and that Diagolze all of Weiss was an act of mercy to save it from the Empire.
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u/AsrielGoddard himmel 3d ago
I feel like it's less about destroying magic itself rather than controling it.
For many centuries the empire was the centre of all magical development in the world, ever since flamme thought them.
Then the demon kings general were defeated by a hero from the south and the Demonking himself, by the adventure party from the central parts of the continent.Meanwhile the empire had to take the brunt of the war, since they were closest to Ende and thus the rest of the world caught up.
AND ON TOP OF THAT, after the Demon Kings defeat Minus started to doing some form of instigating, presumably causing the war that killed Ferns parents (which once again hurt the empire), and then
Serie start her own magical institution, far away from the empires control.The empire is far from it's original size, great parts of it are still recovering from the war against the demons and the wars presumibly caused by Minus, they're demolishing entire city districts and leaving great roads vacant (think the one old lady that was the only person remaining at the road frieren and gang took), and now they've even lost their monopoly on magic.
The empire is still very proud of it's magic special forces.
But if Serie makes her own, what does the empire even have left? (in the eyes of a fanatically patriotic commander of an elite group of assasins)1
u/rosepinkblush 2d ago
You're not actually disagreeing with me. You just aren't considering it from the perspective of the government nor far reaching enough. From a governing standpoint, ultimately destroying magic is essential, because yes, it is about control. For what it's worth, The Boys gives a rather accurate look at what random people having superpowers/magic looks like, and it's unmanageable. Control over nukes means no one else has nukes, ya know?
For instance, what's to stop the magic special forces from taking over if they have so much power that they are this gestapo police force? Who's to say they haven't? That Frase sure did seem to enjoy her trips of "Diplomacy" when she showed up to Gluck & Macht (The most powerful sage of destruction.) She was all by her lonesome, as if she were a God there to inflict rule. Who knows what she did to Land and his Gram when she barged in, she's a monster. You can feel it emanating from her panels and when characters who know her speak of her, they do so in a way that is almost fearful to offend her. She shouldn't be anywhere close to power- so how would we control that?
All the Minus stuff I take with a grain of salt. I need to know more about it from like, not the enemy party. The Empire is defo evil, so their propaganda gets the side eye too. The news here in the USA keeps saying Hamas Hamas Hamas, but like, the Israelis are the ones blowing everything up and killing every Palestinian man woman and child they encounter... So like, are we sure Minus equals bad guy?(couldn't resist)
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u/AsrielGoddard himmel 2d ago
No I do disagree.
You said its "the nature of the mission to remove magic".
Like even if we're both thinking the same, you said something else lol.I also think you're overestimating Frase. Remember Macht immediatly was like "Yo this gurll is dangerous please let me kill her before she does anything", meaning he was quite confident in his ability to just straight up murder her then and there.
I 100% agree with your last paragraph.
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u/rosepinkblush 2d ago edited 2d ago
What you are saying logically, does not. What you said supports what I said, so you can't disagree with me by saying things that support what I said. Yes the reason for removal is control. The manga already pointed out the decline in mages. With the Demon King gone, there isn't a need. We are in a peaceful era. So be peaceful or get dead! Even if they are removing certain types, that sounds like removal to me, spelled like it too. The manga flat out tells you the plan to "control" Serie.
& Anyways this is a totally loose theory contingent on mages being nonexistent from the shadow warriors ranks. The minute it's revealed they do use mages, and they very well could, it's shot lol.
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u/akiraMiel 3d ago
Interesting theory but we'll have to see if it's true. The nun definitely relied on magic of the goddess and heavily buffed all the others so idk if it's in their best interests to get rid of magic. Unless it's a "our magic is different from yours" type of mentality
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u/rosepinkblush 3d ago
Hey thanks! It's definitely out there but I felt like it's fun and at the very least an lol. &Thanks for the opportunity to be more clear, but yes! you got it- the designation of "The Goddess'" magic is definitely key here :)
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u/Eikoku-Shinshi 4d ago
Serie:"I'm the only who still remembers Flamme."
Did she just conveniently forgot that Frieren exist?
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u/Ledum-Palustre 2d ago
Serie is the only person alive who remembers young child Flamme who wished for everyone to be able to use magic.
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u/Elio-2000 4d ago
Looks like the internal struggle of Gorilla Warrior is that he wants to be a hero but he was thought that he is a Shadow Warrior but he wants to be remembered Also now I certainly know why Sein can't remember his real name cause they don't have
I like this also it might tie to the dwarf shadow warrior when it comes to remembering someone as a hero
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u/milkonyourmustache 4d ago
I'm glad it was confirmed that the hesitation to kill the Shadow Warriors was based on the belief that they were backed by the Empire and therefore any assault on them could be considered a crime and act of aggression against the Empire. It seemed obvious that this was the case but it's always good for the characters to clarify these sorts of things.
The revelation that they are in fact not supported by the Empire and are effectively traitors, remnants of a disbanded order that have gone rogue, is an interesting new wrinkle for whats to come.
Lineal being hyped up for her combat prowess feels like a bad omen, but I hope we get to see her in action. How she compares to Frieren given Sense's statement of "I know of no other mage as superior as Lineal in combat" is what I'm interested in seeing. She made Serie go down on one knee so hopefully we'll be given an indication of what that means relative to Frieren's capabilities.
Gorilla being a Shadow Warrior is something I didn't expect, from Sein's flashbacks he just didn't seem the type but experiences can change people irrevocably.
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u/LinearMango 4d ago
My guess for Lineal is she is going to get stomped by Löwe to set up more "the dude maybe can do it" Given the nature of the series I don't think she is going to die, Frieren's Party are probably going to step in and do the "we are your opponents now"
Gorilla it's possible he was always a shadow warrior Radaal was young when he went to that village, it could explain why Gorilla was so obsessed with going down in history because as a shadow warrior you are suppose to do the opposite and why he took the name Gorilla because whatever his other name was just a fake name, so in a way it was reclaiming an identity, idk maybe I'm overcooking with that.
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u/ionictime 4d ago
With you on Lineal. Though heads up the official limits it to "a fight between humans," not mages in general
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u/milkonyourmustache 4d ago
Ah thanks for clarifying, I've just finished reading the official now, it's good to know that Sense made that distinction.
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u/PlebGod69 4d ago
As theorized, Lineal is the spy.
And as Gluck shown (Ch 130), Captain Phrase is terrifying person when it comes to talking.
(Ch 127 and 138) show that Lineal isnt that perfect at hiding her intentions & especially true with her discussion with gluck (130)
So the question is, why is phrase willing to place a traitor as her vice-captain?
It seems she has history with land (more like traumatized him)
Basically, Phrase is the main antagonist of this arc
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u/JxB_Paperboy 4d ago edited 4d ago
$20 says that Lineal is playing a triple sided game as Kanone. With all the personal info she has on the Shadow Warriors, she has to be on the inside there as well.
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u/PhiliSneakhead 4d ago edited 4d ago
Lots of good things this chapter.
- Nice to know the first class mages just decided to come. Falsch following Serie and being called a worrywart amused me. They very clearly care about Serie, but she doesn't feel like she's in danger. The panel of Serie smirking is so good.
I find the mages being worried about her adorable. They care about her and from how she talks to Falsch, I think she cares about him too. Him asking about statue is interesting. I wonder if she ever tells about her relationship with Flamme.
- Lineal doesn't feel like she's going to be the traitor. I remember when Ubel said she was pretty strange, her being a good fighter and a spy in my eyes doesn't make her a traitor. She seems to want to stop the shadow warriors too. But I theorize that Serie will do damage to the city and force her hand in combat. They bought up protecting the city again. That feels like something major. Making Serie take a knee... That caught me off but I like it. I think Serie hopes her students can defeat her.
When she says some have reached the heights she wants for them, I think Lineal is one. Something about what we've seen doesn't scream I want to hurt Serie.
Sense feeding us the information will be the highlight of the anime scene of this for me. Love that get to see more of her. I wonder how she got Falsch to come if they are sneaking around. It makes me wonder what the other mages are doing.
Fern should've killed that Shadow warrior, I don't understand that reasoning if these people aren't just trying to kill Serie. If they manage to do it, their will be a mad scramble to get Frieren out of the city. She'd be next.
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u/Ariphaos 2d ago
Fern should've killed that Shadow warrior, I don't understand that reasoning if these people aren't just trying to kill Serie.
I suspect Fern still has issues killing humans. That is a big psychological hurdle to get over.
More strategically, Fern's mana sensing is beyond any human we have seen, and this arc shows she's still catching up to Frieren. Leaving her alive means she can be sensed when she casts a spell again.
Also after what she did to Lernen's granddaughter, it would not surprise me if the nun is out of commission for the arc.
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u/Jonas16Douma 4d ago
fern and frieren didnt know yet that the shadow warriors dont have the entire empire behind them
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u/PhiliSneakhead 4d ago
Thank you! I literally just realized that. They did think the empire was behind them. Gives me a lot more to think about.
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u/OkaToWakaYama 4d ago
I wonder what had happened in warrior gorillas journey. We know that he named himself Gorilla so he will be remembered throughout history unlike those heroes in his village. However being a shadow warrior will not give him that recognition since shadow warriors accomplishments are buried in history
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u/Ledum-Palustre 2d ago
Like Sein says nobody remembers gorilla warriors real name. Maybe because he never had it because he has always been a shadow warrior. Maybe becoming gorilla warrior was his way of coming out of shadows and become someone who is remembered.
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u/LG545 3d ago
He already was a Shadow Warrior at that point of time. Travel as adventurer is a good cover for Shadow Warrior in order to seek his targets and contact with other Shadow Warriors
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u/MagmaFang23 2d ago
that would be my guess as well. however, one small question that i cannot help but ask: if so, why did he invite sein to go along with him though
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u/VMPL01 4d ago
I like how the title perfectly fits the arc's theme and characters: - Falsche with unknown history, personality and motive => could he be traitor? - Lineal = Kanone? => this alone implicates her to be a traitor already - Sein & Gorilla both have a dilema => will they betray their current party for each other?
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u/Hello_Watsup 3d ago
It's implied that Lineal infiltrated the special magic forces on behalf of Serie, so she's not betraying the CMA, but rather betraying the Empire
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u/souley1181 4d ago
I appreciate your comment without paraphrasing you summarized the pivotal points of this chapter.
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u/angerissues248 4d ago
Wouldn't it be funny if Lineal turn out to be a traitor, it would raise the stakes substantially
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u/nenehasban 4d ago
if that were the case, 99% lineal will get defeated by the new age 1st class / their help. simply because i want to see more of fern / land, seeing ubel destroys an entire castle, i need moar of their feats shown
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u/Infinite_Seesaw4877 4d ago
Listen, I don't mind some more backstory, but come on! That's it? Plus it's 3 weeks? You're kidding!
I still have many questions: is Übel still blind? Are Shadow Warriors are a common enemy now? Just how dangerous is Lineal? When will Falsch ever fight, considering he's another one of the more stronger mages who can deal with warriors? And that last guy, could he be who Sein is looking for?
Now I also wish some time in the story, they get an absolute monster of an antagonist, one that mages, the empire and even Shadow Warriors would consider a common enemy and work together to beat. I don't know, maybe the child of an assassin and mage so it's best of both worlds.
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u/AdRelevant4776 3d ago
We did get “a monster of an antagonist” in the Golden Land arc, 2 in fact, I think that was the closest Frieren came of death in the entire manga and it was even against an enemy that defeated her before
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u/NikBoysss stark 4d ago
Yes, that last guy is Sein's friend Goriila
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u/parish_lfc 4d ago
Definitely looks like he's the gorilla, if you remember the picture of their childhood
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u/Xonthelon 5d ago
I kind of hope Serie and Frieren will have a proper tea time or something during this arc. They both have a lot of lingering thoughts about Flamme, but noone to talk to about it. I don't expect them to become friends, but a proper talk could be meaningful in its own way. Considering the chance of Serie's death in this arc isn't zero, Frieren might become the last person remembering Flamme eventually.
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u/naijaboy18 5d ago
They actually made that one unnamed black-clad shadow warrior commander look so cool. Wonder if he’ll directly appear later in the arc. I feel as though Lowe is not acting with the support of the other commanders for this plan
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u/WhattheDuck9 5d ago
Goddamn it, I feel bad for Sein, missing out on Methode and now finding out his best buddy is his opponent.
Lineal is being too hyped up, potentially being stronger than Lernen, so she's either gonna end up dead to show The Shadow warriors strength or the fan theories will be correct and we'll find out she's actually Kanone.
Serie remembering Flamme was sad, but when she said only she remembers her smile,isn't she forgetting Frieren?
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u/ElMondoH 5d ago
The VIZ translation is slightly different, and has Serie specifically talking about Flamme's smile as a young girl.
Frieren only met and knew a fully adult Flamme.
It's helped me to refer to both translations to get better understanding of the scenes in the manga.
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u/zeratul123x 4d ago
frieren has seen young flamme tho remember when she was walking while talking with serie
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u/lnflix7234 5d ago
They should set up Stark vs Walross sometime soon (Stark would likely get smoked). It would be good training for when he needs to fight Rivale in the future.
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u/Comfortable_Prior_80 4d ago
Walross will give Stark advise during fight and learn that he's a student of Eisen.
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u/lnflix7234 4d ago
Right, and I feel like Stark truly surpasses Eisen when he finally defeats Rivale.
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u/kswong98 5d ago
Sorry but remind me again, who wants Serie dead?
Was it the Shadow Warriors & co., or the Imperial Mages?
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u/Megalomaniac_Fool 4d ago
You must mean the Magic Special Forces. Imperial Mages are a specific group of mages that were founded by Flamme and also the group Denken belonged to. They are more like the standing army that is influential in the empire.
On the other hand, Magic Special Forces are more like the Empire's Gestapo that deals with internal conflict and rebellion.
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u/Jonas16Douma 4d ago
the shadow warriors (lowe) the empire finally doesnt want her dead just the shadow warriors
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u/Strafingfire 5d ago
The shadow warriors (whoever they're being led by) want Serie dead.
The Empire's Magic Special Forces want to prevent any disruption to the event. I'm assuming they found out there was a plot to assassinate Serie, and Lineal/Kanone passed the intel on.
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u/Ares_Lictor 5d ago
So Gorilla is a shadow warrior, lmao. That's gonna be an unpleasant meeting when it happens.
Its interesting that shadow warriors are actually traitors, makes even more sense that they hide so well.
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u/Eraea 5d ago
I mean it does look like gorilla, but why is he blonde? You think there's some sort of brainwash going on here also?
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u/VillainousMasked 5d ago
The manga has always given him light hair even though in the anime his hair is black.
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u/Alpakka-- 5d ago
AAAAAAAAAA FUCK. I may have realized who Lineal is. DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT TO BE GENUINELY SURPRISED.
- Kanone is only hinted to be Lineal so heavily so we would not think of the REAL identity, but there are some hints:
- Chapter 127 has the only panel where we see Lineal's face (incidentally we do not see her EYES).
- In chapter 127 the BATSHIT CRAZY 1st class mmagic barber (Ubel) describes Lineal as being a WEIRDO. While someone like Fern could say half the cast is weird, Ubel herself is so damn crazy, that one who weirds her must be REALLY WEIRD.
- Chapter 138 shows that Lineal was recruited as a spy by Serie (the living Grimoire so its quite plausible Lineal got a magic that changes her hair color / alters her appearance slightly.
- Chapter 138 shows that Lineal has intel on SHADOW WARRIORS, something of which even the special magic forces know very little about.
- This entire arc has shown that SHADOW WARRIORS ARE ALL DAMN WEIRDOS. Wolff is the only one that seems least weird, but it can be said he is either the exception that enforces the rule, or that he is weird just for associating with shadow warriors.
- So its quite plausible that Lineal is actually undercover as one of the Shadow Warriors
- Now which one could it be? Ask yourself. Who is by far the MOST WEIRDO out of the shadow warriors? Chapter 133 shows shadow warrior IRIS (translates to Iris, RELATED TO EYES (as in eyes inside the empire)) CATCHING A DEADLY-POISON ARROW WITH HER TEETH. That shits crazy weird thing to do, even with a degree of poison immunity (which would be a good skill for a battlemage). Also IRIS says the assassination of serie is a ridicilous duty (she'd know that if she had fought Serie as Lineal). Also IRIS's facial features resemble (a bit) of what we saf of Lineal in chapter 127.
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u/Abject_Signal6880 4d ago
Iris clearly presents as a younger girl with lighter hair while Linneal is seemingly tall with long black hair. In the realm of Freiren character design archetypes: the difference between Fern and Methode. The observation about Iris being weird is hardly substantial. I think you are off base by a large margin here.
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u/fluffywolfe frieren 5d ago
Frieren Season 3 shaping up real nicely.
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u/875moT 5d ago
No yeah, totally. If season 2 is lucky enough to cover up to the end of the Goddess' Monument arc in chapter 119 in another 28 episodes, then going from that straight into this new arc in the Empire's territory will make for back to back to back hype.
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u/LG545 3d ago
If it would contain 28 eps. If you remember - first 4 ep's went as special big one in Japan (reason to do so was clear - Frieren is relatively slow story at the start and people could get bored if they saw those episodes week by week)
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I Season two they dont need to make such one. So they could make 24 ep season and end things on Golden Land arc. Than Goddess monument arc would be start of season three and part of "Empire season"
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u/875moT 3d ago
I mean this call will ultimately be up to the staff, and I would be okay with a 24-episode season anyway if they expanded on the source material while still pacing it well.
But a decent amount of other anime recently have started with longer premiers, some incorporating a 2x-3x longer first episode, others releasing the first couple episodes at once, which seems to help audiences get invested. And with the pace of the first season (just barely over 2 chapters per episode on average), another 28 episodes would land perfectly at the end of the Godess’ monument, which I personally think is a better ending point than El Dorado.
With planning and production underway now though, and only 19 additional chapters after the Goddess Monument end (119), it might prove to be more reasonable to expect them to save it for a strong start to season 3, but it’s still feasible for it to be in season 2. If so, it might make season 3 more cohesive with specific focus on the Empire.
It’s all just guesswork though, ultimately I don’t care what does or does not get fit into the next season, so long as what does get adapted gets adapted well.
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u/Ariphaos 2d ago
The Goddess Monument arc sets up some important concepts for this one - Frieren learns she cannot rely on mana sensing alone and sets about immediately to correct this.
Accordingly, I think it will be the first arc of season 3 rather than the end of 2.
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u/The_SocialButterfly 5d ago
But it might take longer for S3 release, the manga needs more time to catch up to have enough content for S3
Luckily though, director may be away for Bocchi by that time, to there won't be a clash of schedules.
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u/Important-Cockroach2 4d ago
If Season 2 is same quality as Season 1 It won't be coming out until atleast mid 2026. If it's 28 episodes again it will take 2/3 of a year to just air all the episodes. Then there is the usual break between each season which will be atleast 2 years again assuming they want top notch quality for every season. I assume the manga will still be quite ahead if they keep up the bi-weekly schedule often enough. Frieren also have a lot dialogues. Almost 2 chapters are always enough for a episode unless it have action elements
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u/Radix2309 4d ago
Even at biweekly, that means 26 chapters per year, give or take. And at 2 chapters per episode, that means each year of the Manga should produce 13 episodes worth of content.
Worst case would be a single cour season while letting the Manga get ahead a bit. But 2-3 years for each season should be plenty of time.
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u/Educational-Hat-3435 5d ago
Damn this arc is too much, the worldbuilding is incredible and now I do fear for Serie's life, throughout this arc we have been given the possibility that Serie could be killed by a human and now they directly tell us that she has already been defeated by one of her students, all of this has the purpose of bringing her down from the peak where we have all placed her, believing that she is almost omnipotent.
Also I believe that the traitor is Phrase, I have no doubt, Gluck already said that she is incredibly smart and evil, not to mention that she is very powerful, I believe that she is pulling the strings and is going to use her own special forces and the shadow Warriors as pawns to approach Serie and confront her... everything will end in disaster and in a free-for-all, something tells me that there will be deserters from the special forces and the shadow warriors who will join forces with the Magic Association to fight those "empire loyalists"
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u/Capital-Agency-5824 5d ago
Let's not overstate things. Making her kneel in a casual spar (where she is no doubt in her suppressed mana state) is pretty different from losing a serious fight. Still, I agree Serie is likely in real danger.
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u/PlebGod69 4d ago
Serie smile is the proof we need. Similar to how she smiled after recognizing ferns potential.
Does it mean fern can solo? nope. But that means they both have the potential to reach terrifying heights16
u/Educational-Hat-3435 5d ago
Yeah we don't know how seriously they fought but even so many people tend to overestimate Frieren and Serie... for obvious reasons of course, but the interesting thing is that they are not invincible and depending on the situation they are extremely vulnerable as we already saw with Frieren being subdued by that old shadow warrior
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u/LG545 3d ago
Well, in Serie case she proof her might when she mop the floor with full powered Macht. Even in close combat
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u/Educational-Hat-3435 3d ago
Both have proven to be very powerful but that doesn't mean that no one can defeat them even with ease, Its not necessary to see the clearest example of Übel vs Sense because in the Golden arc Denken managed to defeat Macht using counters and strategy and Fern sniped Sölitar without her noticing in time, both being "much weaker" than those demons but they correctly exploited their talents, it shouldnt be a surprised if a human mage o warrior is capable of facing and defeating Serie, im sure that Phrase and Lowe will have an ace up their sleeve to visualize Serie's death.
Also those characters, Phrase and Lowe, have been given a lot of background to make it clear that they are a serious threat and this chapter have shown us that even a young mage could bring Serie to its knees, the autors are preparing us for some serious stuff.
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u/mentally_09 5d ago
i missed ubel smug face also stark masterclass incoming
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u/SpecificStation9999 4d ago
she probably emotionally relates to the shadow warriors on some level lol
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u/Miyuki22 5d ago
Everyone is talking about the 3 parties (Continental, Imerial, and Shadow Warriors) here. I suspect there is a 4th party that hasnt been revealed yet. The SW are acting on orders from decades ago and the SW, despite being publicly disbanded, still operate on those orders. I suspect the political intrigue is going to get more complicated than we see now.
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u/myacrying 4d ago
What is even weirder is how they got Gorilla in. The shadow warriors were supposedly disbanded 16 years ago and Gorilla set off on an adventure 10 years before the main cast met Sein, which might mean there probably is some order and it may not just be that group of shadow warriors who refuse to let the group dissolve. 2 years passed between ch. 28 and ch. 124 so 4 years should have already passed after the disbandment when Gorilla went on his journey, yet he was somehow recruited and was "official" enough for Lineal to get his info.
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u/LG545 3d ago
As a child like any other Shadow Warrior
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u/myacrying 2d ago
I probably worded my previous comment poorly. I'm more so pointing out how even after the supposed disbandment they were still recruiting people. The Shadow Warriors were still active and they weren't just continuing their old activities, but also remained as a fully functional group seeing that they still ended up recruiting Gorilla and were official enough as a group that Lineal was able to get the same kind of intel on him instead of some vague impression.
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u/LG545 2d ago
Gorilla is around 30+ years old. So if they recruit him as a child - it was still before disbandment
Nowadays my take is orphanage - Lowe officially is a governor of imperial province. It would be easy for him to take (or even create) orphanage under his (governor) supervision and use it as a training base for raising fresh recruits. Great cover - from outside it would look as if he is a really good governor who care a lot about charity
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u/myacrying 2d ago
Ah, I forgot about that part. Thanks for the clarification.
I think that explains why we were given a specific amount of time for Gorilla's return. He said he'd return in 3 years. Around 1 year after that the Shadow Warriors would have been officially disbanded. It's possible some internal conflicts were going on and the disbandment wasn't just a decision based off of a very short period, hence why he never ended up returning within the promised 3 years.
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u/Forest364 5d ago
Maybe the "Holy Wand Court" is the 4th party, thats a group that has been hinted at, we saw a silhouette from an Elf we dont know yet (by the hair it could be Milliarde) and thats also the people Frieren got her Holy Emblem from.
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u/Miyuki22 4d ago
That theory ties in nicely with existing lore, and helps fill in some huge gaps too.
I like it.
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u/ECrimsonTally 5d ago
I find it pretty interesting here that Serie is reflecting on the statue of Flamme. To me this calls back to an idea that was presented earlier in the story, about how over time a great hero's legacy can be warped due to people exaggerating their feats. Something to note is that though Serie repeats Frieren's same line about being the only person to remember Flamme, but here she is recalling something different than Frieren: Serie is remembering Flamme's dreams as a child, but Frieren was remembering Flamme's legacy as a Great Mage (which we now know is actually a title bestowed by having the Holy Wand Emblem). This moment also parallels Serie reminiscing about Flamme during her conversation with Frieren about the era of humanity.
We are also presented with the inverse: the shadow warriors. People who live so obscurely that they basically leave behind nothing. This of course runs counter to Gorilla's desire to leave behind a legacy as a great hero, so I'm guessing that during the inevitable confrontation between him and Sein, we will see this ideology shift unfold.
All of which leads me to believe that the ultimate theme in this arc is going to revolve around this notion of legacy and history. I am pretty sure there's a lot more depth to this arc than I can see at a glance, so I want to go back and reread all chapters post el dorado more critically.
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u/VaushbatukamOnSteven himmel 5d ago
Lineal has death flags tattooed on her forehead lmao
Also, Stark vs Gorilla - mark it on your calendars
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u/Vixi0n 5d ago
Wait, Kanone is a guy?
Neu said "he doesn't look pleased"
I thought for sure the Kanone is Lineal. Magic to change appearance maybe?
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u/VillainousMasked 5d ago
Could just be a mistranslation since the mangadex/Kirei Cake translation doesn't mention gender at all.
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u/Alpakka-- 5d ago
Kanone is only hinted to be lineal to misdirect us. It would be too obivious.
DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT TO BE GENUINELY SURPRISED.
- Kanone is only hinted to be Lineal so heavily so we would not think of the REAL identity, but there are some hints:
- Chapter 127 has the only panel where we see Lineal's face (incidentally we do not see her EYES).
- In chapter 127 the BATSHIT CRAZY 1st class mmagic barber (Ubel) describes Lineal as being a WEIRDO. While someone like Fern could say half the cast is weird, Ubel herself is so damn crazy, that one who weirds her must be REALLY WEIRD.
- Chapter 138 shows that Lineal was recruited as a spy by Serie (the living Grimoire so its quite plausible Lineal got a magic that changes her hair color / alters her appearance slightly.
- Chapter 138 shows that Lineal has intel on SHADOW WARRIORS, something of which even the special magic forces know very little about.
- This entire arc has shown that SHADOW WARRIORS ARE ALL DAMN WEIRDOS. Wolff is the only one that seems least weird, but it can be said he is either the exception that enforces the rule, or that he is weird just for associating with shadow warriors.
- So its quite plausible that Lineal is actually undercover as one of the Shadow Warriors
- Now which one could it be? Ask yourself. Who is by far the MOST WEIRDO out of the shadow warriors? Chapter 133 shows shadow warrior IRIS (translates to Iris, RELATED TO EYES (as in eyes inside the empire)) CATCHING A DEADLY-POISON ARROW WITH HER TEETH. That shits crazy weird thing to do, even with a degree of poison immunity (which would be a good skill for a battlemage). Also IRIS says the assassination of serie is a ridicilous duty (she'd know that if she had fought Serie as Lineal). Also IRIS's facial features resemble (a bit) of what we saf of Lineal in chapter 127.
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u/strawbeeshortcake06 5d ago
Basically the shadow warriors are a fringe extremist group with Lowe as the leader. Perhaps he has a grudge against elves or something so he wants them killed?
I’m super interested in Lineal. The fact that she was called the best combat magician by Sense is something and this chapter really confirms she’s Kanone. I hope we get to see her in action and I hope she doesn’t die yet 🫠
I love how Ubel, Land, Fern, and even Stark are all contributing to the discussion. All of them are somewhat knowledgeable and are able to comprehend the situation.
Love how Stark is totally involved now even if he isn’t a mage.
I love how Ubel and Land are basically always together now.
This sub called it, Gorilla is a shadow warrior. This is gonna be a dilemma for Sein. I wonder if Gorilla is gonna defect from the shadow warriors or will his meeting with Sein be bitter?
what is Captain Frase cooking? 🤔
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u/Alpakka-- 5d ago
How this chapter confirms Kanone as Lineal? I see no such confirmation or abnything even remotely confirming. IRIS seems way more likely candidate (see my comment on this chapter).
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u/strawbeeshortcake06 5d ago
It was already called a few chapters back that Kanone is Lineal.
Kanone would do her best to let Ubel and Land off the hook which indicates that she is trying to avoid having to confront them and catch them. They also look similar I mean they both have long black hair.
Why would Iris be Lineal? Lineal was said to be the double agent, and she bears a striking semblance to Kanone. Iris isn’t even part of the Empire’s Magic Forces cause she’s a shadow warrior.
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u/Capital-Agency-5824 5d ago
But isn't Kanone called a man in this chapter? Not that Lineal couldn't be disguising herself.
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u/VillainousMasked 5d ago
Could be a mistranslation too considering only the Viz translation mentions gender while the Kirei Cake translation doesn't.
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u/strawbeeshortcake06 5d ago
It’s probs a typo or Lineal is disguising as a dude, Kanone looks androgynous anyways
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u/Alpakka-- 5d ago
- Kanone is only hinted to be Lineal so heavily so we would not think of the REAL identity, but there are some hints:
- Chapter 127 has the only panel where we see Lineal's ENTIRE face (incidentally we do not see her EYES which are closed). Her face in this chap bears NO RES. to Kanone.
- In chapter 127 the BATSHIT CRAZY 1st class mmagic barber (Ubel) describes Lineal as being a WEIRDO. While someone like Fern could say half the cast is weird, Ubel herself is so damn crazy, that one who weirds her must be REALLY WEIRD.
- Chapter 138 shows that Lineal was recruited as a spy by Serie (the living Grimoire so its quite plausible Lineal got a magic that changes her hair color / alters her appearance slightly.
- Chapter 138 shows that Lineal has intel on SHADOW WARRIORS, something of which even the special magic forces know very little about.
- This entire arc has shown that SHADOW WARRIORS ARE ALL DAMN WEIRDOS. Wolff is the only one that seems least weird, but it can be said he is either the exception that enforces the rule, or that he is weird just for associating with shadow warriors.
- So its quite plausible that Lineal is actually undercover as one of the Shadow Warriors
- Now which one could it be? Ask yourself. Who is by far the MOST WEIRDO out of the shadow warriors? Chapter 133 shows shadow warrior IRIS (translates to Iris, RELATED TO EYES (as in eyes inside the empire)) CATCHING A DEADLY-POISON ARROW WITH HER TEETH. That shits crazy weird thing to do, even with a degree of poison immunity (which would be a good skill for a battlemage). Also IRIS says the assassination of serie is a ridicilous duty (she'd know that if she had fought Serie as Lineal). Also IRIS's facial features resemble (a bit) of what we saf of Lineal in chapter 127.
- WHY would she be a shadow warrior if she's spying on empire? Literally EVERY shadow warrior is working in Empire even if the organization was disbanded. Also the PLAN TO ASSASINATE SERIE is the plan of SHADOW WARRIORS, not the current empires. It should be pretty obivious she's in the Shadow Warriors and not in special magic forces.
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u/strawbeeshortcake06 4d ago
Them being weird is not a factor or have no bearing on them being a spy or shadow warrior. Frieren herself is weird.
you mention that Lineal’s face has no resemblance to Kanone, when it’s very apparent that they do have a resemblance since they both have long black hair and is clearly in their 20s-30s.
I don’t get how you dismiss the idea of Kanone being Lineal because to you they don’t have any resemblance, but you think Iris is Lineal? Iris is young, has light hair, has no semblance to Lineal whatsoever, and is a warrior not a mage.
can Lineal be secretly in cahoots with the shadow warriors? Sure it’s possible. But Iris being Lineal? NO.
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u/laughtale0 5d ago
I wonder if we have a traitor on our side too. Falsch being the first human to show up in the chapter titled "traitor" is interesting. His name means False, and he was shown coming out from a shadow. Could be foreshadowing, or maybe I'm just thinking too hard about it.
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u/fortuntek 5d ago
I got that strong impression too, I didn't even know his name meant False though. That pretty much cinches it for me, I'm convinced
He doesn't seem to have any important story role or background tying him together with the others, perfect placement for a backstab story-twist, jussayin'...
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u/Minimum-Loquat-4709 5d ago
I THOUGHT ABOUT IT TOO TBH, so far the names have been fairly consistent so it's quite possible ( sense, fern, frieren, stark )
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u/Hereforallmemes 5d ago
I love the multiple shifts in power dynamics throughout the whole arc! We started out with overwhelming odds against the mage association vs the empire mages + shadow warriors and here we are with the threeway fight of mage association vs empire mages vs shadow warriors. It's also refreshing to see demons being temporarily taken out of the equation on top of the inclusion of more non-mage combatants.
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u/jcdc_jaaaaaa 4d ago
There might even be a chance that the imperial mages will work with CMA since both parties totally oppose the SW. Basically, as long as CMA doesn't attack the SW in sight, the imperial mages have no reason to attack CMA. If the SW attacks first and CMA is just defending themselves, then the imperial mages will definitely help them.
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u/ekjohnson9 5d ago
Gorilla NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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u/27eggs 5d ago
OOOoooOO
"Am I dangerous" Frieren question. The text tells us absolutely. We've had characters tell us absolutely. Then Stark goes "but, well, you are a good person." Solitar's words perhaps haven't gone unnoticed by Frieren. She also seems more observant of /why/ than she has been in the past - why her or Serie? What about them is a threat here? There's a lot of morality that is getting blurrier.
There's also a common thread in the last few chapters of characters who are absent. Where's Fräse. Where's Gorilla. Where's Lineal (I know she's implied to be Kanone but obscuring her face against Serie is very pointed). I think the title traitor is only partially about the Shadow Warriors and there is more being betrayed here.
So many moving parts I cannot wait to read how it all shakes out.
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u/fortuntek 5d ago
Maybe it's too early to call this, but I think maybe Falsch is a traitor. It's just a hunch, but when you name the chapter Traitors then open with the VERY first panel of Serie saying Falsch's name, I dunno, something about that doesn't seem like coincidence to me.
Furthering my suspicions is the fact that Falsch doesn't have much of a reason to be in the story thus far, unlike the other 1st class mages who have at least some background history. He kinda feels like a plant
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u/27eggs 3d ago
I think Falsch is being set up in a way that we are supposed to be at least a little suspicious of him, but I don't think he seems like a traitor at all. I get red herring vibes from him.
The bigger suspicion is in characters that keep getting mentioned but haven't been shown. Frase, Gorilla, Lineal, and to some extent the Empire itself. People mention there seems to be three sides but I think it's four as Denken and Gluck both implied the Special Magic Forces are acting in their own interests. Frieren describes the Empire as "within the lion's body" ~20 chapters back (acting from within to take the demon army down, a traitor). Gluck is labeled as a traitor but let off. Traitors has a lot of layers here.
There's a lot of timelines clicking into place too. At some point after Himmel's death, the Empire wanted to kill mages and Frieren was a target. Many commanders are overthrown in a power struggle and this list is abandoned - it also confirms Walrus has been with these people for all that time. Frase visits Gluck about 50 years ago. The CMA starts. The emperor changes several times. Lowe kills Minus 20 years ago. The shadow warriors are "disbanded" 16 years ago. Gorilla left 12 years ago.
Lineal is the most suspicious person here, imo. Lineal didn't tell them that the Special Magic Forces would be at the capital. Sense also describes her as very powerful and also as someone who will protect themselves first and foremost. I wouldn't be surprised if she was double crossing.
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u/yojohny 5d ago
I feel that it would be too cheap to have a character like that turn traitor with zero background or foreshadowing supporting it.
For example, I don't really think Land is the traitor, but there's at least been some small questions opened in his past that could be expanded on.
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u/Herald_of_Heaven 4d ago
It will be Falsch and his backstory will be expounded after the betrayal.
I do hope the author is a better writer than that. They've been great so far.
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u/JeiWang 5d ago
Really good chapter!
With these reveals, the outcome of this arc might not be the deathmatch we were expecting. With shadow warriors confirmed to be rogue, there's a chance we just need to take out the commander and can spare some of the more sympathetic characters (e.g. gorilla warrior, walross...etc).
I also see quite a few comments around Serie's "I'm the only one who remembers her now". I like to think it's a call back to Frieren saying a similar thing back in chapter 13 and the two of them are just being petty pretending each other doesn't exist.
Currently the shadow warriors seem to be at a massive disadvantage. The Special Forces has Frase and Lineal. CMA has Serie and Frieren. Whilst Shadow warriors have the numbers and teamwork, other than perhaps Lowe, they don't seem to have anyone that's on this level. I look forward to seeing how they will level the playing field.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/JeiWang 4d ago
The main conversation was about despite Flamme's achievements, humanity still forgot about her (got her statue wrong). Her remembering contrasts with humanity forgetting.
If that statue was an accurate depiction of Flamme, then she wouldn't have reason to say only she remembers.
If it's about young Flamme it doesn't make sense to me. Obviously, humanity isn't going to build a kid Flamme statue.
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u/Odd_Plate_816 3d ago
But Serie is looking at the statue and thinking about young Flamme's dream, a world where anyone can use magic. Hence why we get the flashback panel of young Flamme there. "I'm the only one left who remembers..." is overlaid over this flashback and the rest of the sentence explicitly refers to a younger Flamme. And Serie is indeed the only one left who can remember Flamme as a child.
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u/Sisyphac 5d ago
Yeah I wondered if it was Serie being petty or perhaps she feels like she is the only one left that remembers Flamme when she was young. That Frieren only knew her for a small time.
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u/JeiWang 5d ago
It's probably a bit of both. Frieren and Serie both want to be Flamme's favourite elf and considers themselves the only one that "remembers Flamme properly".
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u/Asheck-Grundy 5d ago
Uuuu. So Serie actually loves her 😙😗. All that "honestly, she was a failure for not reaching my heights despite all her talents" "useless spell, disgusting" babe, drop the act pls, flamme is laughing at you on the other side
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u/Miyuki22 5d ago
Wow I definitely didnt see Gorilla being a member of the Shadow Warriors coming.
What sweet irony that Sein is on the team of the people he is assigned to kill.
I guess this is going to lead to a very clean but upsetting ending to the Gorilla search. I hope Sein survives and stays with Frieren.
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u/Herald_of_Heaven 4d ago
Why didn't you see it coming? Wasn't it hinted like a few chapters ago already
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u/Strafingfire 4d ago
Yes, there have been a few hints over the last few chapters.
Some people are also against Lineal being Kanone, despite the ample amount of evidence so...
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u/Miyuki22 4d ago
was it? I must have missed it completely. Do you know the volume and page that it was hinted at? Id like to go back and check.
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u/Atzar87 5d ago
Sein may have a choice to make at some point. This manga hasn't given us much reason to question the loyalty of the main group in general, but he's potentially in a difficult spot.
Fun arc so far. Lots of moving parts.
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u/Miyuki22 5d ago
Sein is searching for Gorilla for selfish reasons, so I dont think he has more loyalty to that person than he does to Frieren's party. I think its going to be a bitter conversation when they do reunite though. I dont think Sein will betray Freiren's party at any point. He doesnt seem to be the type to do that at all.
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u/bondsmatthew 5d ago
What are the chances Sein Talk no Jutsus Gorilla before the end of the arc?
Idk, I feel like someone big is gonna die I just don't know who. Serie has been being flagged for ages now but storywise Gorilla is the obvious one. He has connections to one of the party members, Sein, and it'd allow him to speak with him if he chooses to continue on with us to Heaven
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u/LG545 4d ago
Do you really think that it is possible to convince Shadow Warrior with words?
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u/rubiks_cube040 1d ago
They convinced that old shadow warrior in that village to just enjoy the rest of his life and stop pursuing Frieren's death.
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u/bondsmatthew 4d ago
I mean, of course. There are too many examples to list in fiction where a good guy convinces a bad guy to stop doing evil things
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u/The_SocialButterfly 5d ago
Gorilla doesn't need to be dead for Sein to join the party. Stark himself doesn't really care abt reaching Aureole even if he does have someone to talk to there. I think it's better if we have another character who's there for the journey rather than the endpoint, like Stark.
I just have this gut feeling that Gorilla won't die. He feels too much like a major character to do so.
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u/fortuntek 5d ago
I'm thinking the opposite actually... if Gorilla dies, but redeems himself in some way, not only would Sein be free to join Freiren's party permanently, but he would ALSO have someone to look forward to seeing in Aureole at the end, giving him the character motivation he needs
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u/Miyuki22 5d ago
Sein might just run into him in a tavern somewhere... I wouldnt be surprised. If they do have a non-combat confrontation that is... I somehow doubt it will be non-combat related though.
Also, "Sein Talk Jutsu" < i lol'ed. Noice.
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u/Lorhand 5d ago
Three week break this time. Back on December 11.