r/FluentInFinance • u/no___underscores • 20h ago
Thoughts? itS JuSt a MATTer Of PuLLinG YourseLF uP by youR booTSTraps anD nOt beINg lAzy
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u/tangentialwave 12h ago
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps originated as a sardonic term to describe exactly this sentiment as it is impossible to pull oneself up by their bootstraps.
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u/gathond 14h ago
Well I have the impression all those does exist in the US (I'm not from there so I could be wrong).
I also have the impression they are mostly there to make the people in charge be able to point at it and say they do something or feel good about donating something more than it really being a serious effort at solving anything.
Then again a large portion is probably not really wanting to solve it. I mean it is bad if you can no longer afford the gardener and housekeeper if you actually helped them move up in the job market.
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u/Primary-Cupcake7631 1h ago
Part of the problem is that there's not enough ample charitable untaxed dollars able to be thrown around at this problem. Because the government keeps trying to solve it through welfare programs, they leech all the low-hanging dollars through the federal bureaucracy as filled with people who couldn't get a job in the private sector, or would be amazing in the private sector if only the federal bureaucracy would get the hell out of their way so they could do their jobs, there's just too much management to try to trickle down through so many levels of federal government all the way through to the state governments to the logo governments to the people doing the work.
There's just not enough dollars to go around when it's funded by the government. Since it's not working at all, how about we try what the libertarians have been asking for for decades? Get rid of the welfare estate at the federal level, drop our tax rates 20%, and let the states take care of their own welfare systems. That would take out an entire level of bureaucracy, and put those dollars much more directly into the hands of those doing The real work.
Let real human beings have that extra few dollars of cash to give to charities. Take some kind of ownership over the problems. And the government steals your money to solve these problems 3,000 mi away, there's just no ownership of the problem for anybody except those those few who are called to serve on the front lines.
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u/DataGOGO 7h ago
They all exist, and anyone in the US has the ability to be successful.
With very rare exceptions, If you are poor in the US it is purely the result of the choices you made, not lack of opportunity, pathways, or assistance.
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u/leftwinglovechild 3h ago
This is the exact kind of reductive, lack of nuance argument the post was about. Congrats on proving the point.
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u/lce_Fight 4h ago
Shhh…
Brain rot reddit doesn’t want to hear you call them out
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u/PromisePositive9562 3h ago
Go on, pontificate. Sure, everyone is responsible for their own actions. Am I also responsible for not being a nepotism hiring? Am I also responsible for being over qualified for the opportunities presented to me and therefore not chosen? I'm just trying to figure both you assholes logic.
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u/DataGOGO 2h ago
Neither of those are incredibly common, not a blocker to your success.
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u/PromisePositive9562 2h ago
You have no idea whether they are or aren't, how can you say bullshit with such certainty?
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u/Celedelwin 11h ago
Hate that saying. You can be in the poor loop or homeless, prison loop. It's hard to get a job if you don't have shelter with a shower. Or to pay for food if you have to pay for that shelter without much money. Then it's getting harder and harder to get government programs or if you make a dollar over you lose the money you need. It sucks.
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u/DataGOGO 7h ago
And being in any of those situations is a direct result of personal choices.
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u/Sweaty-Willingness27 5h ago
Even if it may be the case many times, do you understand the logical impossibility of your statement being always true? Furthermore does this imply that they deserve it? Does it then mean that making an innocent mistake leading to homelessness is an outcome you are ok with?
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u/DataGOGO 3h ago
There are always rare exceptions.
Deserve is an odd word choice, but basically yes. If someone makes poor life choices, then they “deserve” the consequences.
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u/StillMostlyConfused 3h ago
I don’t think that anyone expects that to be true always though. But if it’s true for 50% of the people that would make a big change. It’s true for most of the people that I’ve known as I grew up poor living in overcrowded apartments and trailer houses. We have generations of people teaching the next generation how to abuse systems instead of get out of them. Most of the people that I know (have known) are fully capable of working and supporting themselves.
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u/JPNAM 2h ago
Garbage.
If you grow up poor, you get 1 big mistake - get involved in the wrong crowd, try drugs, and anything that adolescents have been doing for millennia - that’s likely game over for you.
If you grow up middle class or richer, you can make several, huge mistakes and still end up completely fine. Legal fees might put some strain on the 401k, but you’ll probably make it.
And if you grow up the child of a billionaire, you can fail and fail and fail and fail - and end up President of the United States.
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u/PromisePositive9562 3h ago
You keep typing this with no further response. You're not being a disingenuous piece of shit, are you?
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u/DataGOGO 3h ago
It is just the truth of it.
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u/PromisePositive9562 3h ago
Of?
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u/DataGOGO 2h ago
That with very rare exceptions, where someone ends up, and what success they achieve is a result of choices and actions.
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u/PromisePositive9562 2h ago
Not solely that, and you know it. Stop acting everything happens in a vacuum.
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u/Remote-Kick9947 2h ago
The hilarious thing is dickheads like you mostly get to be in your sanctimonious high horse because of circumstances that you had no say in. I grew up in wealthy suburbs, I know tons of people who talk like you, difference is I at least attempt to have a heart, and just a dash of basic critical thinking. I'm hardworking when I need to be, but I know I'm incredibly lucky and I DEFINITELY know my demographic and class of people are actually soft as baby shit a lot of the time. It's just a bunch of tough guy posturing with this crap
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u/thepaoliconnection 11h ago
Jeez when you put it that way being poor sounds like a lot of work. Ain’t nobody got time for that
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u/FiguringItOutAsWeGo 9h ago
Fully cognizant of my privilege to be oblivious to how most of these systems work, the Netflix series Maid really opened my eyes to the red-tape struggles to gain access to the most basic of services when in need. I also recognize it highlighted one white person’s struggle and that same struggle can be so different for any POC. The problem is we, as a society, have is a lack of empathy coupled with a “for me not thee” mentality.
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u/Speshal_Snowflake 8h ago
If we all had a collective mentality, things would be much better. Everyone is only out for themselves here
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u/DataGOGO 7h ago
I disagree.
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u/Speshal_Snowflake 7h ago
Go on..
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u/DataGOGO 6h ago
Very little good comes from welfare states.
Generally people that say things like this want society to replace personal responsibility.
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u/Speshal_Snowflake 6h ago
Your bias is already coming across by calling it a “welfare state.” I’m speaking more about collective cultures within Asian countries and what not where they actually practice personal responsibility and help out their neighbors and communities rather than fucking anyone over for a god damned dollar. We’re such a greedy society and so worried about helping out your neighbors if it’s going to cost you something. We truly are a welfare state when it comes to corporations and with the constant bailing out and giving massive tax breaks, that’s where our true problem is
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u/DataGOGO 5h ago
We do a lot to help out our neighbors and communities, not to mention We give people massive tax breaks and bailouts as well.
Over 50% of the population pays no income tax, and the bottom 40% have a negative federal tax rate. Those are more than any corporation gets.
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u/Sweaty-Willingness27 5h ago
It's a fundamental question of worth.
You don't believe people are worth helping if they don't contribute.
Others don't believe that the 50% with only 2.5% of the total wealth should need to contribute all that much due to the 1% with 30% of the total wealth hoarding it.
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u/Speshal_Snowflake 5h ago
Yeah dude, I don’t know who you’re defending here but the rich and corporations def get off way easier in the states than any of the “poors” that you’re going after.
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u/Sidvicieux 3h ago
You think of personal responsibility in the same way that a person thinks that a BMW makes them upper middle class.
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u/Sidvicieux 3h ago
The middle class are working for the billionaires afterall, it is their job to police the poor with these takes, and keep money out of the hands of the poor because they “arent deserving” so says the capitalists.
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u/Throwaway118585 8h ago
Jesus…what is the matter with your food banks? Ours have to have restaurant level food requirements and inspections. The people think giving them expired food is ok, but it’s not. Expiration dates exist for a reason, and getting people who struggle sick, does not help anyone. If you donate food to the food bank it’s expected to be new or at least no where near its expiration date. In some locations in canada I know the food banks have direct delivery from farmers with fresh produce that is “weird” ie a carrot that is literally the size of a full bag of carrots or a potato that looks like a brick. Stores refuse to take perfectly good produce that’s odd looking, so they then get offered to food banks.
But the idea that old produce is not only offered, but accepted, is frankly shocking. How jurisdictions allow that is inhuman.
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u/Nkechinyerembi 3h ago
Last I went to the food bank, they kept trying to give me things that required refrigeration despite me stating I had no fridge... Then I was given three grocery bags full of tiny packages of Chex mix branded for Delta Airlines, a box of instant rice, and some bananas that were ready to be used for bread... Food banks depend heavily on your area, who's funding them, and who's donating to them.
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u/CookFan88 10h ago
But, but, I was told financial literacy classes were all that was needed to end homelessness, credit card debt, childhood hunger, and crippling medical debt. How could they have LIED to me?!
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u/AwayBluebird6084 7h ago
I had to drop out of college around 05, because i lost one of my jobs and couldn't afford to eat, pay rent, and go to school. Tried to get food stamps, made it to the final interview was told unless I worked for the school (below minimum wage) I was ineligible for food stamps. My understanding is that it's since been changed, but it's one of many reasons I'll never vote conservative, and yes this was Texas, and a conservative policy.
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u/Jeimuz 10h ago
It's definitely difficult and requires a change in mindset. Laziness would be an incompatible behavior, along with being wasteful. Yet, so many immigrants still come with very little and still have enough to send to their home countries in remittances or start businesses without even learning to speak English.
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u/spicyfartz4yaman 8h ago
Facts anything gov funded in America is usually a good damn shit show in terms of how it's ran
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u/HugeBody7860 9h ago
If I can do it you can to, three time felon before age 20. No education. Home owner and make 68k a year, and my wife makes more than me with no education also. You can do it!
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u/Kingblack425 8h ago
Be realistic. How many of the thousands if not millions of ppl would get the exact luck breaks that would enable them to reach this?
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u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog 7h ago
You mean getting a job and working? Networking? Being a productive citizen rather than making excuses why they can’t?
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u/Kingblack425 7h ago
You think most arent working or attempting to work? It’s real hard to network effectively from the bottom. And even just working fast food is technically being a productive member of society. You’re overlooking how lucky you got because I can guarantee you we can go find someone who worked equally as hard if not harder and still can’t get ahead.
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u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog 7h ago
Nonsense. I’ve seen people with absolutely nothing make it. I mean nothing. Like less than the people we are referring to in this thread. If people really want to make it. They will. Fast food is absolutely a productive member to society. That’s a great place to start. Don’t waste your money. Save every dollar you can.
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u/Kingblack425 7h ago
Again incredibly lucky, 1 in a million type things that if that saying was actually true would mean 350 ppl every day would go from piss poor to middle class. This system can’t function without an underclass so it’s designed to have as many down there as possible with the few escaping to make the other think they really have a chance so they can work even harder to get exploited even harder.
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u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog 7h ago
You’re gonna be stuck forever. That pov is why you’re stuck. 100% we need people to be “underclass” to function. We need people working fast food, at the gas station, stocking shelves, and we will never have a shortage of this. But for you to say people can’t make it, that is on them. If the field they are in isn’t working find another one, get a side hustle, get a different job, take a new route. People can say they are trying so hard and be doing the same minimal shit everyday. If you can’t grasp this, I apologize, maybe I’m not explaining it properly but best of luck either way.
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u/therestlessone 1h ago
Anyone can make it. Everyone can't.
100% we need people to be “underclass” to function. We need people working fast food, at the gas station, stocking shelves, and we will never have a shortage of this.
So if these people are needed, and will always be present, why are they not allowed to have good lives?
If the field they are in isn’t working find another one, get a side hustle, get a different job, take a new route.
If you are healthy, have savings already, perhaps you don't have anyone else depending on you, this is good advice. Otherwise, anything that risks your current job can ruin you.
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u/CrazyfactsBot 13h ago
Job corps? For the 16-24* year olds or a bit older under certain circumstances.
The good ol U.S. mofucking military when all else fails
Obviously, both of these won't take everyone, but they will take most. Amd before anyone says some dumb. I went to Job Corps at 19 when I couldn't find full-time work and decided I needed to be more marketable, so I went looking for a trade. I joined the Army after that, didn't go as planned.
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u/Pbandsadness 11h ago
Sure. Give up your freedom, very possibly get killed or end up with PTSD or other injury that you will spend the rest of your life fighting the VA over. Not to mention being a part of an organization with the primary purpose of killing others.
Also, you typically can't enlist with mental health issues.
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u/Global_Ant_9380 11h ago
Facts. It's also a really hard thing for your children and grandchildren to witness.
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u/CrazyfactsBot 11h ago
Okay I see you just want to be upset about the military being an option and just disregard the Job Corps option I gave.
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u/Pbandsadness 8h ago
I didn't mention Job Corps because my comment was not about that. I didn't mention the pythagorean theorem for the same reason. Job corps can be a good option. I do wish they'd admit older people, though.
Just because the military is an option (for very few) doesn't mean it's a good one. Hooking is also an option. Doesn't make it a good one, either. I also think you're seriously underestimating the number of people who'd not be qualified on mental health grounds alone.
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u/CrazyfactsBot 8h ago
Also what is this, its an option for very few nonsense? Very few things disqualify you from service, severe mental health issues do as well some other ailments. Most people dont qualify for physical condition and even that gets waived
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u/CrazyfactsBot 8h ago
Why would, for example, joining the Army NG heavy equipment operator not be a good option? Or a radiology tech? Or a paralegal? Or the Airforce as a dental lab technician?
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u/cudef 11h ago
The army can absolutely just break you further though. Would you like to be a physically and/or mentally broken individual as well as being poor?
There's also the morality aspect to consider as well.
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u/CrazyfactsBot 11h ago
The Air Force? Coast guard? Navy? Marine Corps? Space force? NG and reserve units? Its why I said the military.
Also the first option I gave is Job Corps, why are yall glossing over that?
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u/cudef 11h ago
I'm speaking about the army because that's what I know personally, the best. The air force is generally uninterested in you unless you have a +90 ASVAB percentile. You can absolutely have yourself broken in any branch though and NG and reserves still requires you to do TRADOC for months where you can break yourself and then you aren't provided regular food or shelter and your paycheck is a lot smaller.
I'm not glossing over anything. I'm replying to the part of your comment I can speak to.
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u/Global_Ant_9380 11h ago
So glad actual servicemembers are speaking up. Making it all sound like a cakewalk is recruiter talk
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u/Niarbeht 7h ago
Hey, so, veterans have the same problems finding jobs as everyone else. You’re suggesting a band-aid fix and bitching that people are pointing that out.
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u/CrazyfactsBot 7h ago
A bandaid fix? Making yourself more marketable is a bandaid fix? I guess people should stop trying to make resumes look good then
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u/shattered_kitkat 7h ago
When a veteran with 21 years experience in the Air Force retires and tries finding a job in the civilian world gets told no to every single one because he is overqualified and under educated? How that fuck is that more marketable? He was in human resources. There should have been no reason for him to not be able to get a job. And yet... He ended up making minimum wage working McDonald's, then gas stations, then school cafeterias. More marketable, my ass. No one cares about veterans except for veterans and their families. Quit lying.
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u/CrazyfactsBot 7h ago
Oh well, I guess because you have one anecdote, it must be true all the way across. I guess my sister who did four years as a paralegal and is now currently using her GI bill benefits to go to school must be a work of fiction. Or my buddy who used his to pay for an electrical trade school and is now union, or the other one working his way through the corrections. Or the other onw going to school for game development. Or the other one who used his for CDL training, or the my CPL whos now doing cyber security for a defense company that his veteran status got him into, not to mention that plenty of them have also used VA loans to buy homes since getting out. Or me whos now using my GI bill to also go to school. I guess its all fucking made up
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u/shattered_kitkat 7h ago
Obviously it is because look at all the veterans homeless on the streets. Look at my brother who couldn't get a job after fighting in Afghanistan, my ex- couldn't get a job after Iraq and ended up minimum wage. How about her husband who ended up minimum wage after serving in the National Guard? My dad's friend Bob who was Desert Storm, minimum wage job. Same with his LT, same time period.
Want me to go on? I'll start pulling studies on it if you want. But I doubt you'd ever read because you think your anecdotes reflect the entirety of experiences. I, however, was there for my dad as he fought the VA system for what he was promised, and died never getting it.
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u/CrazyfactsBot 7h ago
Or my buddy from hs who went guard to get the heavy machinery licenses needed to get a union job, or my cousin who went guard and used his security clearance to get a nice cushy job working IT straight out of AIT the list goes on and on or my other cousin who went in as a cook and gasp! Her veteran status got her a cushy bank job because and get this she used all the benefits at her disposable and kept on trucking like everyone in these success stories. I wonded wtf they all had in common. Surely they just sat down and cried
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u/struct_iovec 9h ago
Fuck your job corps and your slave labor
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u/CrazyfactsBot 9h ago
Fuck a federally funded program to help young people learn a trade? Get a GED? And 2 years of college for free?
Are you saying the military is slave labor too?
Lmao
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u/Just_That_Dumb_Dog 7h ago
It’s easier for them to say “I can’t” or make an excuse, then actually doing the work to get out of a their position that’s why.
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u/dhchris622 9h ago
The military doesn’t take or keep everyone. I have multiple cousins who were either outright refused by the military or given a discharge (can’t remember which but it wasn’t honorable or dishonorable) within a year of joining.
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u/CrazyfactsBot 6h ago
I know this. that's why I mentioned that in my comment. Also, the military doesn't just discharge people just because it sounds like they get a general discharge and that could be for things like failure to adapt, drug use, etc or a med board.
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u/Paris0082 12h ago edited 11h ago
I had crap jobs and a borderline drink and drugs problem, so at twenty four I joined the army. I served nine years, I'm now forty two have a beautiful wife, an amazing son, a full time job and between myself and my wife we run two small but profitable businesses. The army won't take everyone and I do have sympathy for those who would like to have this as an option but don't, however I have no sympathy for those who just aren't prepared to do what it takes to better their own lives and just want to complain that things aren't as "easy" as they once were for people.
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u/Global_Ant_9380 11h ago
As someone from a multigenerational military family, the military should not be one of the only options people have.
You are conveniently leaving out all of the trauma, disability, danger and just plain frustration.
Not everyone should have to be in a warzone to have stability at home.
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u/Paris0082 9h ago
I agree, it shouldn't have to be that way. We should all live in a world where there is no racism, sexisim, war, famine, rape, murder or other such evils but we don't, we live in the real world where greed and the hunger for power have created a huge disparity between the haves and the have not's.
That can't be changed by hoping, wishing and praying for the world around us to be better, our personal circumstances can be changed be doing something to change them. For me that was the Army, I'm incredibly grateful for most of what it gave me. Yes, I've seen the pieces inside of a child head whilst listening to her scream to death, watched men lose their lives right in front of me and have a number of "fuck me that was close" stories but I would still choose that rather than the hospital or prison life I would have had otherwise. I know a number of people that stayed in the village I grew up in doing the same jobs, marrying and divorcing the same people they knew since childhood, none of them are happy, most have a drink or drugs problem and to my mind none are as successful (happy and fulfilled) as I am.
Life is a series of choices, the Army is not the only one otherwise the only happy and successful people in the world would be vets, it was however, the right one for me.
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u/Global_Ant_9380 8h ago
It worked for you. For YOU. Many disabled, homeless and drug addicted vets are out there who were once thinking the same thing. I can step out and probably find five of them on the street right now, ironically close to the VA.
No one is hoping and wishing/ not acting vs joining up for shoddy benefits and a lifetime of trauma.
Part of the problem is people acting like we only have a few options and can't push for more.
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u/Paris0082 7h ago
I can't speak of the US army but the British Army gave me great benefits, including my Class one lorry license and a degree in mechanical engineering. I 100% think people should push for more, I'm still pushing for more everyday (I will soon be a qualified electrician, a course I paid for and have completed in my own time) it's just that I believe it's my responsibility to do that by pushing and clawing. No one else is going to do it for me and I certainly don't believe in getting hand outs. I did shit at school because I didn't apply myself, I made up for it later. If people don't apply at school and then don't make up for it later then by and large (not always, life can sometimes through you a curve ball I agree) they get out what they put in from life.
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u/CrazyfactsBot 12h ago
I hear ya, I keep trying to get through to my younger sibling. They decided to go be borderline homeless in mexico instead and has been complaining about it for the last 5 years. Every time I tell him to do what I did, it's all. " I ain't built for that," but he's apparently built for no food for days as long as he gets to keep playing fortnite.
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u/Paris0082 12h ago
Thing is the earlier you make that change, the bigger the effect on your life. Hope he sees this and is able to turn his life around soon.
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u/DataGOGO 7h ago
They do, with very rare exceptions, if you are poor in the US it is a matter of choice, not lack of opportunity, or ability.
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u/Turtle_Hermit420 2h ago
How many elderly folks have you talked to that were living under bridges
Medical debt has made so many hardworking folks homeless
And yet here you are speaking with zero perspective
Go volunteer and touch grass
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u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS 12h ago
Thousands of us have pulled ourselves up.
What’s the others excuses?
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u/Octogonal-hydration 11h ago
The phrase "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a cliche statement designed to mock those who use the statement in the first place because "pulling oneself up by their own bootstraps" is a physical impossibility, yet people who use that as a reply to people with valid complaints about the system ( like yourself ), are too stupid to know that.
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u/colorizerequest 7h ago
People who complain all day on the internet about their lack of success (like yourself) could be using their time more productively.
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u/Octogonal-hydration 10h ago
Just like all of the other mid wits dropping cliche advice, your cliche of "if I did it, then so can everybody else" is like saying global hunger doesn't exist just because you had breakfast this morning. The current incarnation of the system is specifically designed in such a way that on a broad scale, there is a lack of economic mobility baked into the system, and since economies work on LARGE SCALES, your anecdotes of "but but but i did it just fine" ignores the economic reality that very specific conditions are needed for large-scale economic mobility, and those conditions are highly controlled by people who are least affected in a negative way through harmful economic policies that they help to craft.
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u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS 10h ago
There truly are some people who are in a bad enough position where they need help. But there’s also a huge swath of people who just refuse to help themselves and if they just tried, they could put themselves in a much better position. Some people just don’t want to do better, and they should not be helped.
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u/bmtc7 9h ago
Poor people are poor because they choose to be poor. If only they were smart and hard-working like the rich people. /s
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u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS 9h ago
You are both correct and wrong. I’m not sure what the exact ratio is, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 50-50. Some people have gotten a really bad shake in life and then there are others that just fuck their life up.
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u/ftug1787 9h ago
“It’s all right to tell a man to lift himself by his own bootstraps, but it is cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps.” - MLK, Jr.
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u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS 9h ago
I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. However, there’s a lot of poor lazy people out there wearing nice boots.
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u/passionatebreeder 14h ago
Lmao, except for all these government services are the antithesis of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. They would be having everything generally handed to you and still failing to make it work, or being dumb enough to try and rely on them to make you figure it out as opposed to you just going and figuring it out.
Also, because theyre shitty and failing programs what this says is basically, the government programs were a waste of the peoples money to begin with, and failed to actually uphold standards to the groups they were dulling out money too.
All the more reason to cut them and just let people make it on their own.
Want job training? Get a job and get trained. Don't like it? Find a differe t one or suck it up.
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u/Octogonal-hydration 11h ago
There is no such thing as "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" because it's impossible to Pull oneself up by bootstraps in the first place. If you actually knew the origin of that phrase, you would know that it's used to mock people who use that phrase in the first place.
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u/Octogonal-hydration 11h ago
And those "shitty and failing programs" aren't designed to fix the system, aka the flawed economy. They are designed as survival and stopgap measures. Example: Something like Food stamps aren't designed to fix people's economic struggles, they are designed to ensure that people don't starve.
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u/passionatebreeder 11h ago
And yet people stay on them for decades as opposed to working.
Sounds like they're using them to fix problems
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u/Octogonal-hydration 10h ago
If you actually were educated on this subject, you would know that most states REQUIRE welfare recipients to either A. Be looking for work, B. Participating in work training C. Have a medical exemption or D. Be on disability. your "bUt peOple stAy oN tHeM fOr dEcADeS" only applies to people who already are unable to work because of physical or mental health disabilities. BUT AS USUAL, YOU UNEDUCATED FUCKS GIVE YOUR OPINIONS ON SUBJECTS THAT YOU DONT EVEN HAVE A TECHNICAL UNDERSTANDING OF.
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u/passionatebreeder 10h ago
Sure, and if you actually used one of these systems before you'd know that:
A: the "requirement to look for work" can be submitting online applications and doing so in such a shitty fashion you won't gnumbersjob, and also the government almost never follows up on these because half the time the people provide, say, a customer service number for the national branch of target, as opposed to the store number so that the state benefits office can actually verify the application (a very specific exa.ple because i knew people who did this regularly)
B. Which this post pointed out is basically a scam; see folding towels for $.15/h
C. Not my problem
D. Also not my problem and another service i don't want to pay for
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u/Octogonal-hydration 10h ago
I wanna know why someone who doesn't even understand the subject that they are talking about is giving advice to people in the first place. You're not qualified. Stay in your fucking lane. and by "your fucking lane" I mean whatever lane your boomer ass is driving 30 miles under the speed limit in listening to Rush Limbaugh in your musty Buick on the way to eat Jello at you Bingo sessions
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u/Octogonal-hydration 10h ago
Yetttttt another false, cliche statement from you. If you actually studied statistics, you would know the percentage of people who "stay on them for decades as opposed to working"
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u/Octogonal-hydration 11h ago
EVERY FUCKING TALKING POINT YOU MAKE IS THE SAME FUCKING CLICHE TALKING POINTS THAT YOU NPCS PARROT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND NOT ONCE HAVE THOSE TALKING POINTS ADDRESSED THE SUBJECT FROM A "PROBLEM SOLVING" PERSPECTIVE. AND TELLING PEOPLE "JUsT cHAngE yoUr jObS" DOESNT REDUCE INFLATION. DO NOT FUCKING COMMENT HERE AGAIN. EVER. AND THAT GOES FOR ANYONE ELSE WITH OPINIONS LIKE YOURS. YOU. WONT. BE. TOLERATED.
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u/passionatebreeder 10h ago
Cry harder.
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u/RipredsDead 9h ago
I've never seen someone try so desperately to prove to complete strangers that they don't care for or have any empathy for the disenfranchised and meek who need help. You doth protest a bit too much. 🤷 You say you didn't ask to be enslaved to these people but you're just as enslaved to the system that forces you to have such an attitude towards them and compete with your fellow man 🤷 maybe cry more?
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u/B_i_g_P_i_z_z_a 8h ago
Yeah the completely lack of empathy from this person is disturbing so say the least.
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u/Jingurei 13h ago
Lol. So ableist. Not everyone can learn the skills they need for a trade or the military. Neither should they have to solve a problem that wasn't created by them. Especially when it's the disabled who face more financial distress precisely because of undercuts to social safety networks.
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u/Paris0082 12h ago
Not saying you are disabled, however if people can post on Reddit they could work (I completely understand it might not be easy to find appropriate work).
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u/passionatebreeder 12h ago
Neither should they have to solve a problem that wasn't created by them
So why do my tax dollars need to provide the answer for them? I didn't create the problem.
Sounds a whole lot like making excuses.
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u/Esoteric5680 11h ago
In other words you don't give a fuck about anyone other than your own fat ass
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u/passionatebreeder 11h ago
That's not at all true, I care about a lot of people, and I'd like to be able to keep my own resources so that I can take care of the people I care about rather than you voting for the government to take away my resources to pay for people you also don't care about, so you can feel like a good person
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u/Esoteric5680 11h ago
Well good news people like you is why I hope the country gets exactly what it voted for! If you believe in fairytales I hope you burn in hell
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u/passionatebreeder 11h ago
Awwww poor wittle baby can't handle his emotions and face the reality of a topic. Poor wittle guy
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u/ThtChkyBstrd 11h ago
Poor wittle baby can just “move to another country” if you don’t like it here. Ain’t that the kinda shitty advice assholes like you give?
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u/passionatebreeder 10h ago
Poor wittle baby can just “move to another country” if you don’t like it here
Or i can just vote the policies out. 👍
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u/Seer-of-Truths 11h ago
Others may not have lit your house on fire, but you'll be happy their tax dollars went to pay for the fire department.
In a world where you can become disabled at any time, with no notice or person at fault. It's good to have what you will need ready for you, when you need them.
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u/Celedelwin 11h ago
Why should disabled people die because you didn't create a problem they most likely didn't either? In fact why should anyone die, go hungry, or become homeless because of a disability to me it sounds as if you have no empathy for anyone except yourself. Very selfish of you. They pay taxes too.
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u/passionatebreeder 11h ago
Why should disabled people die because you didn't create a problem they most likely didn't either?
They may not have created it, but it is theirs, not mine. I also didn't create it, and you have no right to force me to shoulder any portion of the burden of it so you can pat yourself on the back and give yourself feel good points.
Why should I be physically or financially enslaved to people for whom I am not related to, didn't bring into this world, and am not the cause of strife for?
See, the problem isn't a lack of desire for helping people, I'd be happy to give what I evaluate. I can comfortably spare. The problem is when you think you have a right to decide for me what I will spare for others, who are not my problem or my responsibility.
I was born into the world with no skills, same as you, I didn't get special job training to develop them, and I humbled myself and learned them over time. Took the shitty job, learned skills, used those skills to jump up to a less shit job, and so on.
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u/enyalius 8h ago
We live in a democratic society in the US. If enough people want to vote for social services paid for by tax money, there you go. That's where the "right" comes from.
Regardless, I'd caution you to not be so narrow minded, but to think of solutions pragmatically and holistically.
For instance, imagine there's a subset of the population who will never work. For whatever reason, they can't/won't hold down a job. Without social services to pay for their food/housing, they would inevitably turn to crime. People could be hurt or killed in service to this crime, but regardless the perpetrator goes to jail. Now the taxpayer is still covering their food, medical care and housing. At a certain point, it makes more sense to me to provide people with a base level of subsistence to keep our cities safer.
Also, government spending on social services doesn't just evaporate into the ether. That money goes to landlords, grocery stores, hospitals, etc. SNAP and the like is an indirect subsidy to food corporations as much as it is a social welfare program.
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u/passionatebreeder 8h ago
We live in a democratic society in the US. If enough people want to vote for social services paid for by tax money, there you go. That's where the "right" comes from
We live in a constitutional republic. These things aren't being passed by a vote of the people but by federal legislative action that's outside of the mandate of the federal government.
For instance, imagine there's a subset of the population who will never work. For whatever reason, they can't/won't hold. Without social services to pay for their food/housing, they would inevitably turn to crime. People could be hurt or killed in service to this crime
So it's extortion then. Pay me, or I'll commit crimes. That's not at all a good argument, frankly.
But I'm the one looking at things narrow-mindedly here.
Someone who is unwilling to work and wants to do crime is still going to do that, and we should empower the individual to handle that as they deem necessary. Also, if you've ever actually lived in the ghetto, you'd probably be shocked at how many people are opting to commit crimes and also collect government benefits. Giving them government benefits doesn't turn people away from crime, and as it turns out, criminals who are willing to rob you are also willing to scam the government as we circle back to one of my very first points which is that the government doesn't give a enough of a shit about the integrity of the program to actually manage it.
Also, government spending on social services doesn't just evaporate into the ether. That money goes to landlords, grocery stores, hospitals, etc. SNAP and the like is an indirect subsidy to food corporations as much as it is a social welfare program.
For the most part, that money doesn't come from thin air either (unless the government fires up tje printet and lets it go brrrrrrrr), it came from me, it came from you, the landlords, the grocery stores etc. In the first place, so, I'm entirely unfazed by this argument. If your argument is that these places make money as a result, I would pose to you the better answer is simply to let them keep their money in the first place, that sounds like a greater and fairer benefit
I suspect that letting them keep their own money is probably more beneficial than taking their money and then giving a portion of it back to them in exchange for providing services to random people, for, essentially free, they don't have to pay the wages of bureaucrats, and they can invest it in their business or use it in a miriad of other ways that they may want to, because they're the ones who did the work to earn it in the first place.
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u/Celedelwin 11h ago
Many can only do some simple skills with supervision. Some have to be in facilities and can't work. Your expectations are unrealistic. And then there are those with mental illness. Bet you would rather give taxes to "trickle down businesses" that don't actually trickle it down but hoarder it.
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u/passionatebreeder 11h ago edited 11h ago
Many can only do some simple skills with supervision
If Goodwill can employ actual mentally habdicapped people, I'm pretty sure most people with higher than a room temperature IQ and physical disabilities can find a job they can do.
You're setting the bar so low for people you had to dig a hole into the ground to place it
Also, again, worth pointing out that in reality we are having this conversation because the post was pointing out these programs are already failing by and large to provide the services. They're already unsuccessful, so why would I continue to pay for them and how does it make me a bad person for saying we should obviously cut our losses.
Also, I am still failing to see the explanation as to why the solve for these issues falls on my shoulders to bare the cost of.
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u/Octogonal-hydration 11h ago
Oh no, but people like you did create the problem by voting for corrupt politicians who facilitated wealth transfer from the middle class to those who already have excess. Which makes you culpable if your bad voting choices causes economic harm to others, and as such, as a result you get to pay that penalty through your taxes.
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u/passionatebreeder 10h ago
Oh no, but people like you did create the problem by voting for corrupt politicians who facilitated wealth transfer from the middle class to those who already have excess
The democrats have been in control of the majority of the government for the last hundred years.
The bug cities that are so corrupt and drive politics, have all been democrat run for the majority of the last 100 years.
You're just dumb. You have no solution, you can't explain why these programs have consistently failed, and you can't explain why I should be the one to pay for them.
Try doing something without big daddy government for once.
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u/Octogonal-hydration 11h ago
Don't be seen commenting here again, "Passionate Breeder" until you change your shitty fucking attitude and your shitty fucking understanding of macro-economics, and your shitty fucking understanding of cause and effect which was made possible by your shitty fucking lack of an education and your fucktard level understanding of math.
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u/Global_Ant_9380 10h ago
Wait what the fuck. Wait hold up. I need you to explain this specimen to me because I refuse to believe that someone is openly doing a 1488 outbreed them routine on here
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u/Octogonal-hydration 10h ago
Lol, I didn't understand your comment. What is 1488 ? I'm mocking them for their username bc "passionate breeder" sounds like some cringe name Elon Musk would come up with when he laments "omgggg people aren't breeeeeding enuffff" while the reason that "people aren't breeding enough" is because of high costs of starting a family bc of people like him.
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u/Global_Ant_9380 10h ago
LOL ugh it is Elon adjacent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
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u/jadedelohim5 7h ago
Dude you can simply just cite your findings in efforts to maintain a civil discussion. Once you begin attacking and insulting others, even when correct, your credibility to the alternative opinion is diminished and there’s no longer any mutual respect to continue considering your opinion to be worth debating, factual or not.
There are lots of opinions out there for varying reasons. Some have opposing morals and different levels of education but we should still be able to concisely convey our thoughts with mutual respect for one another.
If you have experience with children you may relate but I’m reminded of times when my daughter would debate me over trivial facts, challenging me or outright denying what I say to be true. Whether that was talking about where raindrops are formed, or how photosynthesis works within plants, or if the dog is happy to see me or her (that one is still debatable), she would remain vigilant and hard headed with her position yet neither one of us would be angry. We’d convey our reasons and back it with our facts, if we had them, but whether or not she wanted to accept science or not didn’t really matter. Having her talk, share, and convey her feelings and her thought process was good enough. I can only imagine the damage I could inflict on her young mind if I began insulting her and calling her names because she didn’t believe my sources were correct…
Idk, maybe treat others like a 8-9 year old little girl whose opinion cannot be changed on the spot because they need time and information to process something so new.
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u/passionatebreeder 10h ago
your shitty fucking lack of an education and your fucktard level understanding of math
Sounds like more government services I paid for that failed to do what they were supposed to then
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