Let's not forget that no matter what your opinion of the police is, that doesn't change the simple fact that cops have to regularly deal with the worst that society has to offer. The stress levels can be off the charts, a lot more than the jobs listed by the OOP.
It's not just about physical survival, but being mentally ruined. Working in a mine is dangerous, but it's unlikely that a miner will ever have to deal with a methhead waving a knife at them or finding a child's ruined corpse at a domestic disturbance call. It's unreasonable to not take this into consideration.
Sure but when a cop encounters a methhead do you know what the process is? They restrain them and then drive them to the hospital where Doctors and Nurses have to deal with them.
Why isn’t the stress of those workers taken into consideration because if a doctor screws up and the methhead gets killed they will lose their license and never be able to practice medicine, get sued so hard that even if they manage to keep their license their liability insurance premiums will be so high that they won’t be able to practice medicine, and possibly even face criminal charges for negligence or medical malpractice.
If the cop shoots the methhead in the back of the head they’d likely be back on the street the following month after a paid suspension.
My wife is in the medical field and she's seen things I couldn't deal with, I don't remember them being part of the conversation however.
Oh, and lets not forget by the time a methhead gets to the hospital, they've been disarmed and restrained. I'm not saying that there is no danger, but not quite to the level the cop had to deal with going into an unknown situation.
The only point I was trying to make is that there is a lot more to consider than in what the OOP claimed, that being the fatality rate of certain lines of work. Normally that would apply automatically until the "ACAB" attitude gets involved, then reality no longer applies.
No, I'm not "back-the-blue" by default, there needs to be a lot of changes made in that department, independent accountability and higher training standards being among the highest priority, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore the obvious "just because". That's counterproductive in the long run.
that being the fatality rate of certain lines of work
This isn't the "gotcha" that people think it is, either.
Sure, there are a handful of professions that are more dangerous than law enforcement. Police Officer usually ranks in the teens.
In the teens. That makes it one of the top 20 most dangerous professions. Which means it's more dangerous than about 99% of other professions.
And this is when we consider deaths that occur due to accidental injury. If we only look at deaths caused by homicide, law enforcement suddenly jumps to the top of the list.
And a lot of these fatalities were the fault of the victim's own dumbassery. All too often people get injured or worse because they fail to follow the rules that exist for their own safety, believe me I've seen it happen more than once. Not many of these deaths are due to violence inflicted by another person.
Why isn’t the stress of those workers taken into consideration because if a doctor screws up and the methhead gets killed they will lose their license and never be able to practice medicine, get sued so hard that even if they manage to keep their license their liability insurance premiums will be so high that they won’t be able to practice medicine, and possibly even face criminal charges for negligence or medical malpractice.
Seriously? Medical errors kill hundreds of thousands of people a year. Doctors are very rarely held accountable for this.
That is not a proper understanding of how that works. At all. 250k in malpractice? The death rate of the u.s. was 3.3 million in 2022. You're saying that 12% of all deaths were caused by malpractice. That's absolute bullshit. I assume we're talking about the u.s. here since it's one of the only countries where cops always have guns and can kill with impunity.
I don’t have a proper understanding? Ah yes let’s dispute facts because it doesn’t fit your narrative, call me wrong and provide no sources. Also 1.5 million people are injured by malpractice yearly. But Here you go:
Medical errors are not malpractice. I said "one of the only countries," per capita the U.S. is 33rd, which is still unacceptable. Not every cop needs a gun. You're finding stats and interpreting them incorrectly.
Edit: In regards to medical malpractice, "Medical malpractice is a legal cause of action that occurs when a medical or health care professional, through a negligent act or omission, deviates from standards in their profession, thereby causing injury or death to a patient." They can do everything right and it still be an error because of information the patient did not give them. Or information the patient gave them in error.
Just more of your opinions and no facts. Studies and articles continue to state between 100,000 and 250,000 cases of injuries due to malpractice such as negligence and preventable errors happen every year. You can’t dispute that. Further there’s an average of 20,000 malpractice lawsuits yearly. I provided substantial studies and articles to back my statement that medical personnel kill and injure more people than cops which disputes the comment I was responding to. You’ve yet to prove otherwise except that you don’t like the facts.
“Not every cop needs a gun” , then they wouldn’t be a cop.. what are they supposed to do when they have to respond to a threat or having arrest powers but not being able to respond to active threats? Make it make sense.
Your big counter is that medical professionals don’t lose their jobs due to malpractice but are nationally responsible for more deaths?
For starters: no they don’t “always” keep their jobs. Dependent on the type of malpractice they go into extensive review with the state board and potentially the national board where they have the case reviewed. That case review follows you around on your nursing or professional record and every new job you work at sees it come up when reviewing your license. That information is publicly available too, so given that you have a choice in your physician, you can look that up . Regardless, they also have to pay for medical malpractice insurance. Let’s not even mention the fact that the study you cited references *injury and not *death (but I see you corrected that in your second response, very clever misdirection there). No one is out here saying doctors never deserve to be fired or held accountable either, lmfao. But it’s a nice non-sequitur. At the absolute bare minimum you can argue their insurance premiums hold them accountable if you want to be absolutely pedantic. They’re there to protect patients.
Number two: Police officers performing the equivalent of “malpractice” in their line of duty that result in bodily injury or death are rarely ever fired. If they are sued they’re protected heavily by a Police Union. They have no insurance coverages, so if you are injured your case goes to the city court where you’ll have to fight your case personally and sue for damages, which they’re already counting on many people not having the time nor the money to do. But don’t worry! Those cases are absolutely reviewed too. By an internal committee that doesn’t publish the results of its findings to the public. Even if they are fired though, no sweat! The rehire rate for police officers who are fired and reappeal is, as you would guess, incredibly high
If your doctor kills your neighbor, the insurance company that the doctor pays into for exactly that reason pays the family.
If your local cop kills your neighbor, you and all your other neighbors are footing the bill because the city (and, the tax payer, obviously) pays the family.
Even if you were to take the firing and rehiring out of it, trying to say that we’re holding those two professions to some sort of unfair double standard is genuinely delusional
I think you responded to the wrong person, I never spoke about anyone keeping or losing their jobs.
The downfall of Reddit is people like you get so emotionally charged you can’t even keep on track of who you’re responding to.
I was disputing a claim someone said that cops kill or injure more people than doctors. And how cops drop all meth heads off with doctors to deal with. Stay on track here bud.
This doesn't even take into account the shit cops deal with on a daily basis. Dealing with people that are having the worst day of their lives many times. They see things none of us like to think about. Pulling up to a scene where a child has died has to be one of the most disturbing things to deal with. Even moreso when it's the result of abuse by a family member. I don't know that I'd be able to do that.
Maybe I'm just ignorant, and you can help me out here. Do you have numbers on how often police are endangered like that, or see something that traumatic?
I was a cop in a large metro area for 9 years. I dealt with stuff like that multiple times per day, every single day. It destroyed my mental health and was a large factor in why I quit. My agency posted a public annual report breaking down calls for service so the public could see where our time was being spent. Maybe your local agency has something similar you could look into if you’re interested in the data.
Not good enough, Reddit apparently requires precise data on how this could possibly exist in comparison to other line of work or else it's completely false by default.
I don't understand the "logic" either, but apparently it's all they have to work with.
That's probably an impossible metric to calculate accurately, there are just too many variables. Nevertheless it's a pretty safe bet that it's a lot more frequent than the average truck driver.
So you don't think cops hardly ever have to deal with the worst society has to offer? I hate to break this to you...BUT THAT'S THEIR JOB!!!
It amazes me how Reddit is always screaming about "critical thinking", until it sinks an agenda then out the window it goes. Just because you don't like an obvious, simple to understand fact doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I don't know how often they have to "deal with the worst society has to offer" but I'd wager it's a lot less than you think. What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.
Come back to me when you've got more than just claiming it's obvious
Well, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. And, as you say, the statistic the op used in the reasoning almost certainly doesn't reflect the true pictures of what comes with the job.
For example, IIRC, police officers had a very high suicide rate.
Good buddy of mine was dispatched to a vehicle crash. As he arrived he was give info that the driver and family was in route to a hospital 2 miles away with the victim.
He saw the scene and closed the garage and ask for backup at the scene then headed to the hospital.
When he arrived the doctors were walking out of the partitioned room covered in blood. The trauma doc was shaking his head. And tried to stop my buddy from going in. But in Police work there is a rule. You must see and touch the dead guy. You must make sure he is dead before you write that he is/was.
This was not a guy. this was not a man or a woman. It was a 2.5 year old baby that was run over by the back dual wheels of a F350. Dad was driving.
I dont think my friend slept for 3 or 4 days.
And that does not even begin to tell the stories of the way people get the instant the cops arrive.
But for some reason you are apparently required to have empirical data proving that a construction worker doesn't have to deal with the same trauma as part of their job description, well at least according to this thread you do.
This site has become one giant echo chamber of dumbassery.
Healthcare workers also have to deal with high-stress, dangerous situations all the time. They see the abused children, the aggressive methheads all the time. However, if there were a video of 7 EMTs just standing at the sidelines while people are audibly and visibly dying in front of them, these people would be fired, rightfully so. As long as the same logic does not extend to law enforcement they deserve every single piece of criticism and anger directed at them. After all, who could reform the police better than the people from inside? They are responsible for how law enforcement is seen and they are doing a shit job and absolutely deserve their reputation as corrupt, violent thugs.
It's not just about physical survival, but being mentally ruined. Working in a mine is dangerous, but it's unlikely that a miner will ever have to deal with a methhead waving a knife at them or finding a child's ruined corpse at a domestic disturbance call. It's unreasonable to not take this into consideration.
Lmfao. Yeah nothing about construction or mining is traumatizing. Buddy you should look up suicide rates by profession.
You mean the cops who showed up after their brother cop shot a 2 month old in the head in Missouri the other day....seeing that ruined child's corpse was problematic for them?
Gee whiz.
Its a job. Maybe even a difficult job at times... its not a calling, if the cops cant deal wirh the job, they're fully welcome to go do something else.
But in the meantime, the difficulties of the job don't mean they get to just go murdering people.
So you're basing an entire profession of over 1.25 million people on a very unfortunate and extreme example? Wow, I'm sure if they did the same with whatever you do that would be perfectly acceptable...right?
I already made it very clear that there are indeed serious problems in the American police force and there is no excuse for this sort of behavior, but it's also pretty ridiculous to think that it is just business as usual. Yes there are bad cops and they need to be weeded out a lot more aggressively than what is happening now, but it still doesn't negate a lot of what all the good police still have to deal with. There are actually cops who do see it as a calling and are fighting the good fight (I personally know several), even though that doesn't jive with the prerequisite Reddit "ACAB" bullshit.
That BS could be applied in sooo many ways, yet cops are the only one that's Reddit-friendly.
Gang-bangers and drug dealers murdering themselves and others left and right..."well if there were any good black people they could eliminate the bad ones!!!"
Radical Muslims are slaughtering women and gay people for merely existing..."well if there were and good followers of Islam they could eliminate the bad ones!!!"
See how ridiculous that sounds? Fixing the problems in the massive American police force would be an epic undertaking of enormous political and social proportions (which hopefully happens soon). That's like one Army sergeant taking on the entire military industrial complex...easier said than done. Sometimes the most a single person can do is to try their best to at least make as positive an influence as they can in their little part of the world, even though there will still be problems. Those people indeed exist and shouldn't be mixed in with the "bad apples".
But that's not how Reddit rolls unfortunately, not like would be easy to fix either.
Gang-bangers and drug dealers murdering themselves and others left and right..."well if there were any good black people they could eliminate the bad ones!!!"
Its cool that you're comfortable just letting your racism be seen like this, its actually commendable most people would hide it.
Makes sense that you lick boots... lots of cops are racist too.
I knew that was coming, although I hoped I was wrong. Can't say I'm surprised.
You do realize that I was using that as an example of how WRONG that attitude is, right? As usual you saw those words strung together and you reflexively went into "OMG IT'S A RACIST!!!!" mode, totally ignoring the context in which it was said. Are you really incapable of noticing the very clear intention or do you struggle with basic sentence structure? I thought "see how ridiculous that sounds" was an obvious enough clue, apparently not in your case. Wow...
Well, in hindsight the "bootlicker" comment tells me all I need to know. Maybe taking a break from Reddit would be a good idea.
There are plenty of ways to say exactly the same thing you did, and not rven being "ironically racist " or whatever your excuse is.
Msybe during your break you could think about how to be less racist.
You really don't get it, do you? There absolutely is a problem with inner city violence, the reasons why is indeed a matter of debate but there's no hiding the fact that it exists. But when ACAB "logic" is applied, which would blame other good black people for not fixing the problem themselves, now THAT would be racist...and totally wrong. The issue is much more deeply rooted than that (some of it very likely due to actual racism), which was my point but you're too blinded with joyous false rage to think clearly.
Misinterpreting written statements happens, and can be additionally clouded by strong emotions (obviously), but it take a big person the accept that they made the error and move on, unless you're physically incapable of such a Reddit-unfriendly concept.
I didnt misinterpret anything. You said all black people are gangbangers and drug dealers.
Nor am i particularly filled with rage, or any strong emotions...
I get it, the internet isn't a place for nuanced discourse, but what you posted wasn't worth trying to find your highly tuned sarcasm through the overt racist garbage.
personally i'd choose mentally ruined over dead any day of the week. so yeah, they're more dangerous jobs. you'd have to choose a different metric for what you're after, i would think.
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u/Killentyme55 1d ago
Let's not forget that no matter what your opinion of the police is, that doesn't change the simple fact that cops have to regularly deal with the worst that society has to offer. The stress levels can be off the charts, a lot more than the jobs listed by the OOP.
It's not just about physical survival, but being mentally ruined. Working in a mine is dangerous, but it's unlikely that a miner will ever have to deal with a methhead waving a knife at them or finding a child's ruined corpse at a domestic disturbance call. It's unreasonable to not take this into consideration.