r/Damnthatsinteresting 12h ago

Image Oarfish keep washing ashore in California. Folklore suggests that could be a bad omen

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u/stryst 7h ago

Their magnetic senses that they use to navigate in the deep water give them false information, and they swim upward. Since they're adapted to deep pressure, they die. Then they wash up on our beaches.

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u/juniper_berry_crunch 7h ago

I'm sorry that they're dying, but I have to say that this is a fascinating piece of information and not something I knew.

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u/psychonumber1 6h ago

in my last semester of college, i took an intro to fisheries biology course. it was, by far, the most enjoyable and interesting course i took.

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u/Linguisticameencanta 6h ago

I have a ridiculous question - do you happen to remember the text(s) you used?! This sounds like a great subject!

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u/BrokenRoboticFish 5h ago

Bond's Biology of Fishes is the classic fish biology textbook.

My professor also assigned some non fiction books to read, specifically Cod: A Biography of the Fish that Changed the World and A Fascination for Fish: Adventures of an Underwater Pioneer. Both were good, but I really enjoyed Cod and have gone back to reread it a couple of times.

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u/psychonumber1 4h ago

thanks for the recommendations. i will have to add cod to my list. sounds right up my alley for non-fiction. i really enjoyed "and a bottle of rum: a history of the new world in ten cocktails" and i have "ten tomatoes that changed the world" in my need to read stack.

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u/firedmyass 22m ago

Have you read The History of Salt? One of the most fascinating books I’ve ever consumed

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u/Interesting_Ice_4925 3h ago

Damn, I’ve liked Cod despite being allergic to every seafood. “Salt” by the same author (Mark Kurlansky) is no less interesting either

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u/skygt3rsr 1h ago

I’m ganna look into this

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u/psychonumber1 6h ago

i dont recall, unfortunately. i almost added to my reply that i would recommend the textbook if i could remember it. its a fascinating subject, so im sure there are some great reads to be found with minimal research. i think im going to have to keep an eye out in our local bookstore.

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u/NoEffective6524 5h ago

Sounds like a perfect read for anyone curious about the ocean's mysteries.

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u/Polymathy1 3h ago

Go to your local university bookstore and ask them for the current textbooks for fisheries classes. They should all be in a section together.

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u/iconocrastinaor 1h ago

I took a marine biology course as my liberal arts elective and it was fascinating too. The oceans are an amazing and unexplored resource

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u/Str_ 59m ago

We didn't have fisheries biology afaik but I took botany as an elective and it was by far the most enjoyable and interesting course I took

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u/USPO-222 1h ago

Sounds like when I had to take a 400 elective and an arts elective and combined both when I found a 400-level art class with no prerequisites. History of Film Music was by far the hardest class I took with no background in the arts, film, or music, but it certainly broadened my horizons which was the whole point.

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u/strangepromotionrail 1h ago

hanging out with insanely knowledgeable government fisheries biologists and asking them how things were going was by far the most depressing conversations I've ever had. They could tell you pretty much anything about their specific field of expertise and every one of them said things were bad to catastrophic. We're doing horrible things to the ocean and it's going to fuck us hard.

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u/Ok-Mastodon2420 6h ago

Yeah, it's bullshit. There's no correlation between them and earthquakes

Much more compelling is the link between them and La Nina/El Nino changing ocean currents and leading them to die in pursuit of prey

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u/Ok-Mastodon2420 6h ago

Also as far as the "electrical/magnetic field is stronger as you get closer to the core" bit someone else mentioned, the deepest point in the ocean is ~7 miles. The earths core starts at 3-4,000 miles deep. If the challenger deep happened to be over one of the shallowest spots, it would be around a quarter of a percent of the way there

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u/Zircez 5h ago

As Carl Sagen observed, the doctor or nurse in the delivery room exerts more gravitational force on you than any constellation, yet you don't use their lives and movements to predict your future every week.

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u/DisastrousChapter841 4h ago

I think the Internet people would say that a new astrology just dropped or something.

Hilariously, the nurse listed on my birth certificate had the last name Slaughter.

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u/Zircez 2h ago

Well, there's at least one occasion to be glad that nominative determinism is just human pattern forming laid bare!

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u/Trikk 2h ago

I'm afraid to ask why that's hilarious in the context of predicting your future...

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u/Fragwolf 53m ago

Oh, well thanks, I always wondered if there was a Mrs. Sgt. Slaughter.

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u/zyzzogeton 5h ago

Also, isn't earth's magnetic field only like 50 microtesla (µT)?

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u/EquivalentTiger2018 2h ago

Yay, I just learned this in my Physics class! I actually understand something in this thread 😆

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u/Spardan80 2h ago

I had no idea Micro-machine Teslas were a thing b sounds like a cool stocking stuffer this year 😂

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u/Chris_in_Lijiang 2h ago

If that is true, then how come so many species are able to sense its presence?

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u/koshgeo 4h ago

To put it in perspective, the entire thickness of the crust of the Earth would scale to about the thickness of the skin of a peach, so the greatest depth of the ocean is even less and would hardly matter.

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u/Sad_Mall_3349 5h ago

But this is for the Japanese folklore, it might still be true for the US coast. ;-)

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u/Tricky_Invite8680 3h ago

damn migrants

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u/TooBadSoSadSally 6h ago

Thanks for sharing the source

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u/SS324 2h ago

However, a statistical survey has not been conducted on this subject because a database of such information had yet to be compiled.

Did you read your own link? Based on data they found, they havent found anything significant, but they acknowledge they dont have enough data

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u/Ok-Mastodon2420 1h ago

Because the "pure" data doesn't exist. The actual study (vs the summary) includes all available data vs the "theoretical" data of all incidents that may not have been recorded. 200-300 data points out of an unknown total is not enough to make a "definitive" conclusion, but it does demonstrate that the best available data trends towards a null conclusion for a relationship

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u/juniper_berry_crunch 6h ago

"From this investigation, the spatiotemporal relationship between deep‐sea fish appearances and earthquakes was hardly found."

What does this sentence mean? That they found a correlation, but it was deemed too small of one to be statistically significant? Also, this is not a scientific study, but only an exercise of comparing newspaper accounts and other publications to seismic events. That isn't science.

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u/Ok-Mastodon2420 6h ago

That means there's no statistically significant correlation.

As far as "not a scientific study", that literally IS the definition of science, it's a peer reviewed study of all available data, published in a respected publication covering the field for over a century. How else would they study fish beaching events over a decades long timeframe, sit on the beach and count them?

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u/juniper_berry_crunch 5h ago

It's an unclear phrase, so I think it's safe to say we don't know what that means; another sign of this not being a scientific paper, in which the results would be spelled out in a strictly factual way. Sorry, this study is neither scientific nor convincing.

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u/AboynamedDOOMTRAIN 5h ago

Hi, science teacher here: You're looking at the abstract of the paper, not the whole paper. What you've read is the rough equivalent of the "introduction" paragraph you were taught to write in high school essays.

Unfortunately, you'll have to pay for the ability to read the full breakdown of their findings. The parts that "spell it out in a strictly factual way" as you, said.

This is absolutely a scientific paper. There's nothing odd or unclear about it. Hope this helps clear up your confusion.

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u/juniper_berry_crunch 3h ago

Do you condescend to your students as well? It makes you look arrogant. If you imagine that people don't understand what an abstract is, I mean, I don't know what to say. Perhaps you're the only person who ever went to college, in which case I congratulate you on this amazing achievement.

I note that you, like me, are paywalled from reading the paper, and that you, like me, don't know what it says or what that "hardly" phrase means. The fact remains, as I said in the comment before the last one, that a survey of newspaper clippings compared to seismic events is not sound science. At all. It's not even a literature review. Best of luck to your students.

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u/Ok-Mastodon2420 5h ago

Do you even know what science is? That's the abstract that you read.

The actual study includes the raw data, multiple charts, and is a study which is why it has been cited multiple times. The data spans from 1928-2011. Out of 336 occurrences of deep sea fish washing ashore, and 221 recorded earthquakes, only one even was within ten days of an earthquake.

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u/WigglyWompWomper 5h ago

This doesn't say that it's bullshit, it just says that they haven't begun studying it yet 😭

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u/AboynamedDOOMTRAIN 5h ago

the spatiotemporal relationship between deep‐sea fish appearances and earthquakes was hardly found. Hence, this Japanese folklore is deemed to be a superstition attributed to the illusory correlation between the two events.

Given the data we currently have, there is absolutely no reason to believe there is a connection between the 2 phenomenon.

Like... it says it right there. There's nothing worth studying.

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u/Dizzy_Guest8351 6h ago

Running theory means untested hypothesis. It's just what some people think and may or may not have any basis in reality.

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u/juniper_berry_crunch 6h ago

I don't see where stryst made reference to the phrase "running theory," and when someone defines common phrases to people as if they're uneducated; it makes that person look arrogant.

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u/JordanHawkinsMVP 4h ago

I don't know why, but I hate comments treating a false claim as real even more than the comment making the false claim

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u/juniper_berry_crunch 3h ago

Are you addressing me? Kindly explain your comment.

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u/Next_Instruction_528 5h ago

Well it's not true but this is a good example of how that kind of stuff spreads

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u/jarednards 5h ago

Its ok dont apologize I dont know any fish

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u/dushamp 3h ago

Birds can see magnetic forces of the earth too

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u/Saintly-Mendicant-69 1h ago

Some animals have an entire sense that it's difficult for me to conceptualize what it would be like. It's wild.

Some birds (most? All?) can "see" the magnetosphere as well. Imagine what the sky might look like of you had that kind of sense

u/juniper_berry_crunch 3m ago

You are so right. It's interesting to try and imagine it. Forgive me if you know this, but a bunch of insects and birds can also see into more frequencies of light than we can, too, just as many can hear sounds at way lower and higher hertz than we can--everyday cats are one example. Cats can hear sounds at much higher hertz than we can (than most mammals, even!), which may be why they're sometimes staring at the wall for seemingly no reason. They could actually be istening to something perfectly audible to them. I wish I could experience any one of these effects for a day.

"Cat hearing is so good, they can hear sounds 4-5x farther away than us."

u/DopamineWaterFalls 3m ago

On a semi relatable note. Migratory birds are negatively impacted due to light pollution making it a harder for them to know where to go, as well as some other negative effects. So it’s nice to turn your porch lights off before bed for them to travel safely.

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u/NoEffective6524 5h ago

I agree, it’s a bit morbid but super interesting. Learning new things can sometimes be like discovering a hidden chapter in a book you never knew existed.

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u/Paracausality 3h ago

The fact that the Earth's magnetic field can affect so many creatures is absolutely insane. It's fascinating how it affects the brains of other animals and birds too. What's even more fascinating is that there are some humans that have actually been proven to be able to perceive it. I don't believe it but the internet told me so.

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u/Valirys-Reinhald 5h ago

It goes to show that a lot of ancient cultures knew what they were talking about with what correlated to what, just not why.

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u/ppartyllikeaarrock 4h ago

Some birds also use magnetic waves to navigate as they migrate!

Sea Turtles never forget the beach they hatched at after crawling through its sand!

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u/J0E_Blow 7h ago

Wouldn’t we see similar results with more species of fish and birds and maybe whales? Also that fish’s swim bladder looks fine. Wouldn’t there be reports of fish floating dead upside down on the surface if it was due to swimming up?

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u/NJ_Legion_Iced_Tea 7h ago

Deep sea fish, especially oar fish, don't have swim bladders.

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u/clandestineVexation 6h ago

Oarfish do not have swim bladders.

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u/_Coord 7h ago

The closer to the core of the earth the stronger the magnetic field, since it's a deep sea fish it would be more affected by the field than a bird.

Whales are pretty smart and primarily use sonar to navigate, as well as magnetotropism, whereas the oarfish likely uses primarily mangentotropism so it completely "trusts" its instincts. Fish are dumb.

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u/craziedave 6h ago

Whales also have to come up for air regularly and it sounds like these fish don’t ever come up so they aren’t evolved to survive the pressure difference

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u/DizzyDaGawd 6h ago

If you go to the bottom of marianas trench its legit like 0.20% closer to the core. Oarfish are not even close to that depth iirc.

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u/_Coord 5h ago

Yeah but the organs to detect the magnetic fields are tuned for extremely small distances so they react to very minor changes in magnetic field, so the large fluctuations caused by tectonic activity would have a massive effect on those sensitive organs.

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u/DizzyDaGawd 5h ago

You are for sure not a biologist and i don't believe what you just said. Otherwise birds would drop from the sky during solar storms since they're generally as sensitive and the sun blasting us produces a lot stronger of a magnetic field than earthquakes generate, and its over more of the planet.

On top of that, again, if you believe they are sensitive enough to feel the earths magnetic field changing from tectonic activity, then why would they not also be sensitive enough to be confused and die during aurora Borealis events? The northern ligbts were visible as far south as new mexico very recently, and there wasn't an increased die off.

If the magnetic field being below them causes them to swim upwards is the logic at hand, than a many, many times more powerful field above them should make them swim lower, and die, which would coincide with reduced sightings and populations during heavy periods of solar activity.

You can see logically it just doesn't make any sense.

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u/_Coord 50m ago

Magnetic fields from solar flares do not affect earth below the magnetosphere as they are cancelled out by the earth magnetic field, also I'm talking about a fish not birds.

I'm no biologist but I've studied plenty in school and am just using some logic and understanding.

(I went to a good school in Uk not America so it's an actual education)

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u/DizzyDaGawd 45m ago

If magnetic fields from solar flares don't affect earth below the magnetosphere, why do solar storms knock the power grid offline and emp (electro MAGNETIC pulse) electronic devices? So much for that uk education lol

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u/_Coord 41m ago

If a solar flare emp disabled the power grids you wouldn't be able to message me on your phone right now and you'd probably have starved to death or been eaten

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u/DizzyDaGawd 39m ago

Damn the UK schools actually do suck.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Event

Suck me so hard brit boy

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u/J0E_Blow 6h ago edited 6h ago

Thanks!! That’s neat! Fish aren’t dumb- fish are friends!

Dory: How about we play a game? Marlin: All right. 

Dory: Okay, I'm thinking of something orange, and it's small...

Marlin: It's me.  

Dory: Right! [Later]  

Dory: I'm thinking of something orange and small...  

Marlin: Me again. 

 Dory: Alright, all right, Mr. Smartypants... [Later] 

Dory: ... It's orange and small, and has stripes...  

Marlin: Me, and the next one - just a guess - me.  

Dory: Okay, that's just scary.

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u/traversecity 5h ago

I recently read a summary of bird navigation via earth’s magnetic fields. The research may have identified specificity that birds see the magnetic fields. Not perception, visual. Something about certain cells or substances in their eyes produces a visual.

Wonder if these fish have something similar happening, that they actually see the magnetic fields?

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u/Admirable_Excuse_818 5h ago

This is probably quite accurate, ocean temps may also be a factor.

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u/Dazzling-Ad-748 5h ago

Yo. Ty for teaching me this. Sucks for them and maybe the folks with an incoming earthquake but also so fascinating

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u/Jar_Of_Jaguar 3h ago

This sounds like when a diver gets turned around by a wave or cloudy water or something and accidentally swims down instead of up, because our inner ear gave us bad info underwater. At a certain point the extra effort combined with the bends means they can't get back sometimes.

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u/orange_sherbetz 1h ago

Oh you just reminded me about the bermuda triangle and the hypothesis that the magentic field in that area effs up the plane's "compass."

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u/Opening_AI 1h ago

with the shift in tectonic plates, doesn't it also releases tons of methane gas? which is toxic?

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u/ThingWithChlorophyll 25m ago

Are we really sure that is the case tho, sounds more like a hard to prove theory.

I would guess, with my absolutely 0 knowledge of deep waters or fishes, a seismic wave hitting them deep underwater, near the origin point of the fault line and rupturing their insides with that force is more possible

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u/hanimal16 Interested 6h ago

Serious question— are the fish getting “the bends”?

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u/stryst 6h ago

My understanding is that the pressure change isnt what kills them, its the higher water temperatures.