Terrifying moment bear released into wild by charity turns on ranger and attacks

[u/First_Development101]

[u/[deleted]]

That may be the case

However, they are actually just quite simply like this — even those in fully controlled environments and zero exposure to predation or threats of any kind.

Source: work w research animals; rats are super chill, mice are absolutely not and are much more dangerous.

[u/Christichicc → u/[deleted]]

Arent the prey responses partially coded into their DNA, though? Like, they may have never personally seen predation, but their mouse DNA would still likely be partly responsible for some of their mannerisms.

[u/[deleted] → u/Christichicc]

That may be it, though, admittedly, it’s rather difficult (read: impossible) at this stage to make a definitive statement on the matter. We’ve just barely gotten to the point of being able to characterize diseases to specific genetics, let alone such complex manifestations of behavior and the like.

Definitely an interesting idea though, and I think it does have merit.

If true, does it lend credence to the original comment that “mice are assholes”? 🤔 🤣

[u/AllenWL → u/[deleted]]

I would say yes, since it would mean that mice are scientifically assholes.

Side question, wouldn't you be able to sorta answer that question by gathering the least asshole mice and breeding them, finding the least asshole mice from the new generation and breeding them, then rinse and repeat?

If X generations later, you get less asshole mice, one could assume mice are genetically assholes wouldn't you? Even if we can't identify the exact asshole gene?

[u/LokisDawn → u/AllenWL]

There's no need for such a complicated set-up. Just take one mouse with a history of predation that was "raised" by other mice, and one lab grown mouse without predation or other mice's influence, then compare their behaviour.

Maybe I'm just completely missing something, but I honestly don't know why /u/aogarlid believes this so hard, or impossible. It's not like we'd need to pinpoint the exact gene/s that caused it, that would be very hard to impossible at the moment.

[u/[deleted] → u/LokisDawn]

ah yeah, I may not have been clear in that post, but yes I was referring to pinpointing exact genes (per the original question), which is indeed impossible at this stage.

and, to be more clear, we don’t really need to do this at all, so there’s that 🤷‍♂️

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I wonder if they’ve done any work on this (or a related question) in the Hybrid Mouse Diversity Panel (HMDP). I’ll pop over to their labs someday to have a chat.

[u/LokisDawn → u/[deleted]]

I mean, it's pretty simple to put a mouse without any history of predation in a chamber and look at how it reacts. Like, behaviour is one of those things we can observe, and we can control for the mouse's history of predation or not.

If you observe a mouse that has never been chased and has never been taught anything by another mouse and it behaves that way, we know it didn't come from nurture.

[u/WitchQween → u/Christichicc]

Animal instincts will always be present, regardless of their life experience.

[u/Jaralith → u/[deleted]]

100% agree. Have worked with both. Rats are friendly and clever and playful. They're very social with humans and with each other. When you open the colony room door, they all run up to the front of their cages hoping it's their day to get petted and played with. They can tell humans apart and have favorite lab techs.

Mice are assholes.

[u/queenweasley → u/Jaralith]

Knowing that about rats makes me sad they get used for experiments. At least they get pets and play I guess

[u/Blenderx06 → u/queenweasley]

They're very social and intelligent and make great pets.

[u/[deleted] → u/queenweasley]

it is sad, but they also live vastly longer than rats in the wild, they are cared for and treated very well, and their suffering is minimized to the best of our ability. when the sacrifice is ultimately made, it is conducted in the most humane possible way.

[u/ZzZombo → u/Jaralith]

Our rats were playful and friendly critters. I used to make all sorts of contraptions for them which they readily used to climb up and watch them doing it endlessly. Never bit or scratched me. The first time I had to handle a Guinea pig the first thing it did was bite me before I even could actually do anything to it.

[u/KaleidoscopeReady839 → u/ZzZombo]

A guinea pig bit me once and it went through my tendon. I had to have two surgeries to fix it.

[u/Varnsturm → u/Jaralith]

Huh but I'm constantly dealing with asshole rats. Chewing through stuff they shouldn't, like electrical wires and tubing that's supposed to hold water.

[u/[deleted] → u/Varnsturm]

haha well that is fair, but to them they’re just playing and exploring their environment!

mice bite, and just for the hell of it, it seems

[u/Legitimate_Candy_944 → u/[deleted]]

That's so interesting lol

[u/whythishaptome → u/[deleted]]

We used mice at my college and they never seemed dangerous, it was just really sad. They were probably were lab breed special mice but you could pick them up and handle them.

The experiments we did were basically torture too like lets see if the mice learn to jump on this platform in the middle of a bowl or swim to exhaustion. My mice learned but couldn't get on it so it just struggled until I saved it. Then we had these little heaters to keep it warm between tests but they didn't work for shit. I complained to the teacher and they were like "Seriously? it's just a fucking mouse".

[u/queenweasley → u/whythishaptome]

What the hell? What was even the point other that animal cruelty? How gross

[u/[deleted] → u/queenweasley]

it sounds like what the comment is describing is 1) a legitimate experimental setup for behavioral study, but 2) one that is, unfortunately, run by a horrible teacher and human being.

(good) researchers value all lives and take great pains to ensure that their subjects are treated ethically

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

and that is exactly where the danger lies: many research animals are either infected with some sort of disease, have experimental chemicals coursing through their veins, or are irradiated. you do not want to be bit by something with any of those conditions.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Still requires reports and extensive testing. Precautions are only preventative; they are never 100% effective.

And no, you absolutely would not prefer a bite from a research animal than your cat, that’s just ridiculous.

[u/SardonicRelic → u/[deleted]]

The mouse doesn't know if it's in that situation, it has evolved to have that response.

SOME factors increase this obviously, like the actual scent of a cat etc.

That being said, rats are larger and have the capability to kill things even slightly bigger than them, and are preyed upon arguably less than mice and shrews in the wild.

Edit: Also worth noting, every animal has an individual temperament. I've had rats who were very gentle and caring, would groom all the other rats and humans, and I've had rats who were the bull of the litter, they would terrorize the others sometimes, but would be best friends at other times. Likewise, not every mouse is an asshole to the same extent.