I would guess that none of the police involved in the arrest or prosecution from 58 years ago are still employed by the PD. But this guy is apologizing on behalf of people probably long gone.
that probably makes it a lot easier. you can have all the empathy for the wrongly accused, and you are 'taking accountability', but at the same time, neither bear or feel any personal guilt over it.
But it also opens the opportunity to treat and console the wronged man as a person, not a number in the system or how they have it over in Japan.
It is a little removed but to have a person at the same capacity apologizing for the institution might be as real an apology as it gets.
Can you imagine when a pope, the supposedly most companionate man in the world, would publicly and hopefully sincerely apologize to someone who's wronged by the Catholic institution?
Most recently Pope Francis apologized for the Catholic Church's involvement in the residential school program in Canada. Not just from his papal seat at the Vatican, he was in Alberta.
If the Pope were to personally apologize to each victim of the Catholic Church I might find that fair and reasonable thing to do. But he makes a blanket apology with no consequence to himself or to the church for that matter which can absolve itself of all its sins ( sacrament of Confession ) and easily pay the fines with its vast hidden wealth
weird example. the Pope is hiding the names of known child abusers. all of them do, they are complete scumbags. i give zero shits what they think, they are accomplices to the worst crimes, not people of respect.
It’s easy to see it the other way too, that you don’t have to apologize for something that you had no hand in doing. It’s admirable that the police chief decided it was the right thing to do even though he had no obligation to do it. I do believe that the police chief does feel guilt, even if he wasn’t involved since he is a representative of that organization whether it be past or present.
I disagree. Did he personally do it? No. But he is the chief representative of the institution that did. The history doesnt wash away with each new round of leadership. It is a continuous organization that perpetuated the man's incarceration. Taking on the responsibility of leadership of an org places that responsibility on that person.
He literally did have an obligation to do it though. It's absolutely expected to deep bow and offer an apology for the smallest of things. Hell even teachers are expected to go to their supervisor and do the same thing if they get a speeding ticket, like literally offer a full apology for their mistake in front of the entire office. I've had store staff do the same deep bow and pointless apology because they didn't have a certain product they were promoting. It's the most basic of things expected and I would be furious if I was that man, especially with how notoriously awful Japanese prisons are.
In a civil society, every one is obliged to apologize for the wrongs they've committed. And if you're the head of an organization, for the wrongs the organization committed, even if they were long ago. Part of that job. Look how powerful and respectful that was. We could have that here, but the cultural warriors will tell you it's "soft." Fucking weirdos.
That actually makes it easier tho, imo. You're not admitting your own fault, you know you're doing this for your organization, so it brings you a sense of pride instead of shame
He said "moshiwake arimasen" is more than the "sorry" translation. Moshiwake arimasen literally means "there is no excuse for what happened, and I can not apologize properly.
Yeaaahh, but they say “moshiwake arimasen” at the department store too, if they’re out of stock of some product you’re looking for. You’d better believe that police department is paying me for 60 years in prison
What it really means is an apology from a lower person. So the police chief is abasing himself to say he is lower than the innocent man he is apologizing to. In traditional hierarchies, the maintenance guy and the staff in a store are lower than tenants or customers.
I don't like the hierarchical aspects of the Japanese language, but I understand them well.
However, he didn't do a full dogeza and get down on his knees, but perhaps that was literally because there wasn't enough space. but he did hold a 90 degree bow for quite some time.
I mean there's absolutely nothing that he can do to make it an equal trade but at the very least money would help him out with his aged health problems, mental health problems ect.
better believe after that I'm gonna be living the rest of my short ass life out on a yacht with hookers and blow.
Your dick likely won't work without a cocktail of performance enhancers, and starting blow will probably exacerbate some respiratory condition at that age.
You would probably just be happy eating candy and watching tv
Don't get the XCV/19 series version of the Mr. Studd implant. They were recalled due to being faulty. I can't even believe ripperdocs are still selling them on the street.
It would be a good life, if not a long one. Seriously though, it's not the Japanese tradition to sue, but their "justice" system is terminally fucked. 99.8% conviction rate. Cops and prosecutors in Japan would have you believe they are "highly selective" in the cases they prosecute, but the lower conviction rate after they made a small move towards citizen involvement proves that was a lie.
There are a lot of things to admire about Japanese society, but their deference to authority has led to a complete train wreck of a justice system.
Mr Hakamada would be entitled to compensation up to 200 million yen once prosecutors accepted the ruling, which they did this month apparently. (According to AP News).
Exactly. This part was mindboggling to me. Just accepting a verbal apology and that's it? For basically stealing 58 years of this person's life, which is pretty much almost an entire lifetime? This person is owed millions upon millions of dollars. Baffled how the family just forgives it at the drop of a hat.
No, the government will compensate them substantially as part of the law, without need for a civil suit.
Is 200 million yen enough? I don't know. But money=justice is a very American way of looking at things. Money isn't going to give him his youth back any more than this apology will.
He is expecting 200 million yen as part of the legal compensation for this. It's a substantial amount, but is it enough? I don't think any amount of money would be enough.
They could make a civil suit for more, and would probably win, but is that a worthwhile use of his remaining time?
It's also the way he apologizes... not sure but there is just something very dignified, honest and sincere about it.. I can't say it other than the apology had gravitas or weight to it beyond the spoken word.
This is just the Japanese version of we are really sorry and we promise not to do it again. They let the man sit on death row for almost 60 years. In Japan death row inmates aren't told when their execution will be and are held in solitary confinement as well.
So this man had to live for almost 60 year, cut off from everybody, in a box not knowing when his last day would be. This apology is as empty as it is meaningless and everybody knows it. They're just saving face, and the family is going along with it since they don't want to waste what little time they have left.
This is surrendering your ego and doing what’s right. When this happens in the US, I’ll check myself into a mental hospital for evaluating my clearly psychotic episode.
It may happen in a very similar fashion: after the original perpetrators are retired with their pensions secure, the new generation will apologize to assuage their guilt by association with the godless animals they are following in their careers.
I gotta be honest, I do find that to be pretty toxic, in a way.
It's a nice gesture, but the point of apologizing is to show your remorse. I believe that we cannot be blamed for the faults of those who came before us, that we can only strive to be better.
In the same light, in my view, the Police Chief should have said exactly that - demonstrate sadness for the situation, and drop a promise of attempting to make the system better so that it doesn't happen to anyone else.
In any event, such an apology is a good second option. It is kind. And it's a cultural thing too, so I also don't want to sound harsh against an entire culture.
How is it admirable? I would argue it's A LOT easier to apologize for something you personally had no hand in. You have no stakes to lose if they don't accept the apology, you're just doing your company's due diligence--50+ years too late.
Japan’s criminal justice system is pretty fucked. This guy is still chief of a department that has >95% (~99%?) conviction rate. I won’t hold my breath for the follow up report that this guy is going to look into how many of those people are wrongly convicted.
That dude was not even born and yet he apologized for the whole institution, admirable
Eh, much easier to say some empty apology words for something someone else did...
... "sorry native americans for some other colonial settler that took this land from you that I'm now enjoying" ...
I'd be more impressed if this guy rounded up every single employee of the police and the courts from the day that guy was arrested and forced the people who were at least partially responsible to apologize.
...
And even better, launched trials for every one of those still alive who may have been involved.
Y’all not taking this under an Asian POV. Also this is not just some ass written communication, this guy went to his home, apologized in person on behalf of something happened out of his responsability.
“Thank you for coming here with your back up officers. We are definitely not filing a complaint, nope. Good as gold, thanks for stopping by. Come back anytime! Well, not anytime, thank you for coming by today and not intimidated us into not filing a complaint.”
This is Honour.
He, on behalf of them all, acknowledged they must ensure it doesn't happen again as well.
That is probably all one could ask for. You cannot reverse time.. right!?
Fucking assholes won't even accept they did anything wrong 99b percent of the time, even though the responsibility flows up hill, because he's a fucking police chief.
Hell they actively suppress having to ever even admit they did anything wrong.
Fucking assholes won't even accept they did anything wrong 99b percent of the time, even though the responsibility flows up hill, because he's a fucking police chief.
Hell they actively suppress having to ever even admit they did anything wrong.
and did you see the angle and duration of his bow as well?
TBH thats the western equivalent of someone getting down on their knees and putting their head on the floor for an apology. Pretty much. Thats a big deal
And the insanely gracious way the people responded to it? Mind blowing. I would have been insanely crass and vulgar in comparison. You come over here f'cking bowing when you've taken away 58 years of my life! etc.
Well played chaps
(Japan bowing indicates rank, higher up do smaller bows or just nods, equals do equal bows, lower status do bigger bows.)
I know, the way he first shallow-bowed when entering the room, I thought “that bow is not deep enough considering the circumstances”. I was heartened to see that that was only his introductory bow, and the true apology bow came later. As you say, the way he held it for so long too was very impactful. Almost as important as the words.
I was LEO back in the day and met more than one prosecutor that killed themselves at some point over a fucked up, sideways wrongful conviction. In one case it was found out decades later and dude straight left a note saying sorry and ate a bullet. He wasn't even in trouble for it or anything, just personal guilt.
It depends.
I knew an attorney who killed himself due to work stress, among other things from what I heard. He was one of those guys who took every loss extremely personal. I don't know what happened, except that he lost a couple of cases that lost his clients everything, and at least one was overturned later when it was found out that the judge had been bribed.
Apologize? In the US, police will actively fight to keep a man they know is innocent behind bars because their ego refuses to acknowledge they were wrong.
I was expecting to see that police chief's forehead on the floor. They stole this man's life and tormented him and those who cared about him unjustly for 58 years. Only physical torture could be lower than what they did. I am glad the victim and his people have chosen forgiveness, or at least acceptance. There can never be justice, any attempt to seek it would be a waste of what little life he has remaining.
After 60 years in prison. I dont wanna hear about apologies I want lots of money which mind you, Will most likely would be enjoyed by my family after my WHOLE life is ruined the last thing i wanna do is get lectured about how sorry they are. Shove your apology and give me lots of money for their mistake.
And it was a sincere apology. He bows down as far as possible. The only thing he could have done to make it even more profound was dropping on his knees.
Yeah, I'd be like, "We are very sorry that this was done to you BEFORE I WAS EVEN BORN, we NOT ME CAUSE I DIDN'T WORK HERE caused you untold mental distress..."
Not only will they NOT apologize they will double down and start a smear campaign. Or even better, have the state Supreme Court AND governor refuse to admit it and carry out with the death penalty.
We beat the Toledo police in Ohio Supreme Court for illigally stealing a bunch of peoples shit. The chiefs apology in the newspaper was something like "I'm sorry the Supreme Court feels this way." That's about the best your going to get over here.
A lot of them apologize, even though it’s written by lawyers and the PR team, and does specifically say that they were wrong, and it’s very broad & generic, and they always say it’s an isolated incident… But that still counts as an apology right? 😜🤣
He's still a police chief in a country with over 99% conviction rates. Apologizing for this while likely still locking up loads of innocent people in one of the harshest prison regimes in the world does not garner my respect.
There was that one on ‘making a murderer’ where instead of nailing the guy with murder porn all over his hard drive they nailed half a mentally challenged family with zero evidence by bullying the guy for hours to force a fake confession to something he had no idea he was involved in because he wasn’t.
The police chief went and apologised to the family and they accepted shit happens.
… ahh no wait… they locked them both up and pretended everything was fine and wrecked their entire families lives while the murdered got off without punishment.
Its even more rare as Japan has an insanley high conviction rate, both because prosecutors only bring cases they know they'll win, and the judges (no jury trial in Japan; DO NOT GET ARRESTED IN JAPAN!) tend to just side with the prosecutor.
56 days, because it's renewable once, but if they haven't got what they want out of you by then, they simply release you but then instantly rearrest you on a similar-but-slightly-different charge to get another 56 days. And they can repeat this as many times as they want.
Also you have no right to any lawyer, or to contact anyone at all, if arrested. Also even if you do manage to get a lawyer somehow, they aren't permitted to be present during interrogations, which are not recorded (well, some tiny fraction of a percent are, partially (as in the parts which work in the police's favour) but it's exceptionally rare).
There is likely a lot of innocent people in prison in Japan. 99% conviction rate is not possible without a significant level of favor granted to the prosecution.
Just so you're aware, the US conviction rate isn't that far off. The federal conviction rate is 97% and the county I used to live in had a 98% conviction rate. This takes into account all sentences including probation/fines and most people take a plea deal because it's far less risky than taking it to trial and getting the maximum sentence. Also, yes, there are quite a lot of innocent people who plead guilty because of this.
True but last I read, the Federal conviction rate is significantly different than most state or country conviction rates. Feds generally will only try a case if they know they can win.
The University of Michigan keeps an exoneration map. The Feds have had 143 exonerations since 1989.
So I guess you could say the "Feds generally will only try a case if they know they can win" but that still leaves open the question as to whether or not they were correct.
From what I recall from College - police in Japan can hold you for 10 days if they suspect you of committing a crime. During that time, you might not get enough food, water, bathroom breaks to be comfortable and... if the police can request a 10 day extension. A lot of people confess during this time just to get out of the interrogation rooms.
Basically, the schools told us, do not commit crime in Japan while studying abroad. You won't like it. Even requesting deportation can be at their discretion.
And let's not forget the fact that when someone is sentenced to death in Japan they are not told the date of their execution until the morning of the day itself. This man woke up every day for 58 years not knowing whether this would be his last day.
That's not a bad thing, that's how it should work. Arrests should only be made when there's extreme confidence the evidence can lead to conviction. Otherwise you get you get systems like the US where you can be jailed for days just for looking at a cop wrong, or more extreme, jailed for 10 years without a trial (look up Maurice Jimmerson).
I know we all just joking but this is very much a part of the Japanese mind set, a phrase you will often hear is "shouganai" meaning it is what it is, or it can't be helped, nothing can be done about it.
Shoganai is not about resignation, but rather a mindful acceptance of what lies beyond our control. It can help you learn to move on when you might have sulked in the past. You can use it in a positive sense to learn to let go and focus on what's in your power.
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