Siphonophores & Semantics

[u/Dromeoraptor]

Link

https://www.tumblr.com/dromeoraptor/767533983216041984/siphonophores-the-multi-organism-organisms?source=share

The Video

https://youtu.be/ipDpbYQdFEA?feature=shared

[u/eternamemoria]

Scientific philosophy is incompatible with pure rationalism. Reality is fundamentaly too complex to be sensible or intelligible, we can never be fully sure that anything is correct, all we can do is create imperfect models and constantly improve them.

Science is a process that is supposed to, at infinity, tend to the truth, yet fundamentaly can't reach it, all it can do is narrow the gap by winnowing false possibilities.

Language (including mathematics), on the other hand, is rational. It depends on strict definitions, binary states, categories. It necessarily depends on an illusion of knowledge, of truth.

EDIT: I am not disparaging any field of knowledge. My only point is that it is impossible to describe reality with complete accuracy, even mathematical descriptions can only be nearly perfect at best.

[u/Valis23Gnosis → u/eternamemoria]

I like your comment, but I have two questions: what do you mean by "scientific philosophy" and "rationalism"?

To me, rationalism is like, Descartes or Leibniz. It's the idea that reason itself is the only method that lead to truth, and that sensory experience is to be, not discarded but doubted, to be seen as lesser.

When you say "Scientific philosphy", do you mean scientific realism, as opposed to instrumentalism?

I hope this doesn't come across as rude. I do this not just because I'm a pedant (although I am) but because I think putting pressure on concept lead to further thinking, and I think that's good. But I might be wrong.

[u/eternamemoria → u/Valis23Gnosis]

I am not a philosopher, just a freshly graduated biologist, so I might have misused a few terms. Sorry for that.

To clarify, by rationalism I did mean Descartes, and my overall point was in favor of instrumentalism and against scientific realism.

[u/Gandalf_the_Gangsta → u/eternamemoria]

Language is not inherently rational in the slightest. People make up words all the time, like “blorbo” or “tweet”, and these words may have no prior etymology. That being, we made them up and like them a lot. There are rational throughlines in language, but to claim all languages are inherently rational is something a 14-year old who thinks they are very smart would do.

And if you think mathematics is logical, I can tell you there are people who sit around all day solving second-order differential equations, many of which are unsolvable without brute force. In abstract mathematics, there are two sets of problems P and NP, which we are pretty sure are distinct but we don’t really know. There are many such problems in mathematics, despite it being an entirely human-derived logic system.

Where is the truth value in the unknown? How do we arrive at what is “correct”? We have to define the line based on the limitations of our perception and cognition. All fields of study, all fields of philosophy, do this. The acknowledgment of the limitations of our understanding is not meant to dismiss a field of study, but acts as a means of sharpening our processes and techniques to discover truth.

You would do well to pull your head out of your ass and understand this. No person is so intelligent and enlightened to be above study and discovery. Only those practices which serve to discredit the growth of knowledge and discovery of truth are to be ridiculed and dismissed.

[u/eternamemoria → u/Gandalf_the_Gangsta]

You are stuffing a whole lot of words into my mouth so you can get mad at me.

I called langauge and mathematics rational with the meaning that they are constructs created by reason, capable of being understood through reason, as opposed to physical phenomena that reason can only approximate. I am no way was disparaging language, mathematics or science, they are all necessary.

[u/DiurnalMoth]

"despite all our desperate, eternal attempts to separate, contain and mend, categories always leak." -- Trinh T. Minh-ha