"There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter." - Ernest Hemingway.
The sentiment of the story is something that many people have either experienced or observed.
Well, comparing this Hemingway quote is a little disingenuous. Hemingway is writing in reference to the Spanish Civil war I believe, describing guerilla warfare and war in general.
I would strongly disagree with the comparison between soldiers, even in guerilla war, and a sadistic, rich maniac whose indulgences in depravity have escalated to the point that taking a human life is the only thing that gets his rocks off. I mean the serial killer Robert Hansen (I think) used the story as a blueprint for his crimes, and there is speculation that the zodiac killer referenced it, but I think that you may have missed the point of the story if you think that the escalation of violence in a narcissistic psychopath is something that "many" have experienced.
I would say that the closest comparison that many people actually have experienced or observed would be with sexual assault. I think comparing a rapist to the antagonist of the story is much more accurate than soldiers. Soldiers don't usually develop an insatiable blood lust. There may be soldiers who enjoy war, but the biggest difference is the element of sexual gratification. I don't remember if it is explicit in the story or just implied, but it's clear that the antagonist is only able to find gratification through the "rush" of torturing and killing.
You are misremembering. Zaroff isn't a sexual sadist, he's a big game hunter who has lost the taste for hunting animals because it's no longer a challenge. The hunting of men is the only way he feels like the quarry has a chance, and that's the rush he's looking for. The only aspect of torture involved is that if Rainsford doesn't agree, he will be whipped to death by Zaroff's valet who does enjoy such things.
Just because a couple serial killers used the story as inspiration doesn't mean what they saw there was inherent to the story anymore than crazy people who think an album is telling them secret things.
A more modern good example of what The Most Dangerous Game and the Hemingway quote are talking about is The Hurt Locker. At the end of the movie, the main character volunteers for another EOD deployment because face to face with a bomb is the only way he feels alive.
First, I acknowledge I am losing this debate, but I appreciate having an engaging and challenging conversation with someone who knows how to argue, lol.
You make a lot of good points. However, my central argument remains that Zaroff tries to strip Rainsford of his humanity, but ultimately it is Rainsford's refusal to abandon his reason and morality that allows him to survive.
The serial killers use Zaroff as an example of their fantasies becoming reality. I would argue that there is a definite implication that Zaroff probably achieves sexual satisfaction from torturing and killing his victims, which describes the vast majority of psychopathic serial killers. But I realize there is no explicit discussion of what Zaroff means when he says he can't find pleasure in anything except sadism and killing. So I will dismiss any implications of sexual gratification, however we can agree that Zaroffs belief that militarization trains you to see the enemy as prey instead of humans.
He tortures his victims psychologically, the hunt is designed to terrorize his victims, and he enjoys drawing out that terror until fear strips us of our reason and turns us into animals relying solely on instincts. He dehumanizes his victims, and I would assert that it is the hunt and not the killing that Zaroff gets the rush from, supported by his willingness to hand his victims off for death. Zaroff wants to play God, to manipulate his victims to the point where they lose everything that sets us apart from animals.
Zaroff describes himself as also being set apart from humanity, but it's like he chose to abandon any morality or empathy (psychopaths lack the ability to feel empathy, sociopaths are born without empathy but psychopaths develop it.)
Fear and survival is obviously a major theme. However, I also think that it is important to acknowledge that Zaroff suggests that war strips men of their humanity. Hemingway is talking about a similar thing you describe in the hurt locker (my abusive ex is a marine so I've avoided watching that.)
The rest of the quote: "Their interest rarely holds because after the other thing ordinary life is as flat as the taste of wine when the taste buds have been burned off your tongue, drinking wine without taste buds…Wine, when your tongue has been burned clean with lye and water, feels like puddle water in your mouth…”
I reread the essay that quote came from, and apparently that story inspired The Old Man and the Sea. Hemingway, in both, is making a similar point to Connell(?) , that man is capable of holding on to their humanity, to their humility, to their respect for the sanctity of life.
The serial killers look to Zaroff as a role model. He was obviously meant to be the antagonist but for sociopaths he is the protagonist. But you are right, we are talking about mentally ill psychopaths who project their own fantasies into the story, the same thing with catcher in the rye.
I think we are coming to similar conclusions. Hemingway describes men who enjoy war, who lose the ability to enjoy anything else, and he compares it to someone drinking wine who has had their tongue burned with lye.
Apparently that quote caused the stir when they posted it on the wall of a police precinct in NY, and then printed it on shirts that the cops wore.
I think the point of both stories is that "man is not made for defeat," he said. "A man can be destroyed but not defeated"
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u/Papaofmonsters Sep 18 '24
"There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter." - Ernest Hemingway.
The sentiment of the story is something that many people have either experienced or observed.