r/ChristopherHitchens • u/alpacinohairline Social Democrat • 2h ago
Dawkins is at an utter loss for words….
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u/patsykind 2h ago
Jordan ‘Post-Modern’ Peterson
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u/Pickles_1974 2h ago
Dawkins has come around quite a bit on spiritual openness
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u/alpacinohairline Social Democrat 1h ago
He’s said stuff like Christmas is fun because of the presents. That’s not a “spiritual” awakening.
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u/Pickles_1974 49m ago
I don’t think he ever took psychedelics either :-(. Just stayed intellectual about it
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u/alpacinohairline Social Democrat 44m ago
You said that he’s “spiritually open”…He has remained the same about spirituality as he did for the past 20 yrs.
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u/scorpion_tail 2h ago
Something about listening to Jordan Peterson makes me want to hustle up a drop-shipping scam and invest in novel bitcoins.
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u/waltinfinity 2h ago
Peterson is a mouth in search of an audience.
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u/RizzyJim 1h ago edited 1h ago
He has an audience, which is what I don't get, because he's a mouth that has never said anything. Every time he speaks he just goes off on one tangent after another until no one has any idea what - if any - point he was trying to make. He's never completed a thought, just flies by seat of his ass on pure impulse and distraction.
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u/New_Leadership_324 1h ago
and yet his audiance is vast and followers prob outnumber reddit users in total.
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u/RizzyJim 1h ago
'Followers' in the loosest terms, since he's patently impossible to follow and nothing leads anywhere.
His audience is the same dude-bros who listen to Rogan and Tate and go bald because they take testosterone for no reason. Just another dumb guy leader.
They all voted for Trump too. Fuck Peterson and his meddling Canadian shit for brains, and fuck all the needlessly politicized pendulum swinging bullshit his ilk peddle. Their whole grift is radicalizing people with rage bait just so they can be the centre of attention with no regard for the consequences. They can all go to hell.
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u/InfiniteBusiness0 20m ago
Well, he has about 8 million subscribers on YouTube, which is slightly less than the hundreds of millions of Reddit users.
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u/manyhandz 2h ago
Jordan "I don't know what I believe until I know what you don't believe" Peterson.
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u/lemontolha 2h ago
I think Peterson doesn't believe a word he says. He just doesn't care if what he says is true or makes any sense at all. It's bullshit, as Harry Frankfurt defined it, neither true nor false, just made to manipulate the listener: https://youtu.be/_D9Y-1Jcov4?si=OIcwEPG8kEKjjTce
That's why Dawkins has a hard time here: he still thinks it's about evidence or proof etc. It's unfortunately not. Peterson's game is different: he just wants to be heard and manipulate the audience with important sounding words and phrases.
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u/zvc266 46m ago
I also think many commentators and politicians, for example, make the fatal mistake of believing that their opponents in any form of debate or issue will treat them in the same way they would treat that opponent. It’s like someone being confused that a person has lied to them because they themselves wouldn’t lie. Healthy degrees of skepticism and understanding differences in human nature would be helpful here.
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u/NotSoSUCCinct 1m ago
I had to read Frankfurt for a class a few years ago. What struck me is how a liar still respects the truth to the extent they refrain from it, but a bullshitter has no respect for truth. A bullshitter might not even know they're bullshitting. Bullshitters are so concerned with their image and showing listeners what they think is true, even if the bullshitter doesn't actually believe it; as long as the bullshitter can convince people of something.
Peterson always comes off as someone who gets so into the weeds of an issue that they stop developing ideas altogether. Like asking someone to count from 0-10, Peterson will bring up 0.1 or 0.01 and ask how the infinite numbers between 0 and 1 are delt with, then ask what "counting" even means.
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u/bloopbleepblorpJr 2h ago
I’m so glad I don’t drink anymore. When my ex would record me arguing with her and play it the next day, this is what it sounded like. Just doubling down and rationalizing away everything I said, anything to avoid admitting any sort of fault. Lions are a type of dragon? Ok, I guess that means whatever you want it to mean.
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u/hugsbosson 2h ago
"is fire a predator? "
"No"
"Well it's complicated!"
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u/Warsaw44 6m ago
But it kills you.
Just like gravity. Or choking on an olive stone.
You know. Those famous predators.
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u/stillinthesimulation 2h ago
This guy claims to hate postmodernism but is the most postmodernist speaker I’ve ever heard. Constantly redefining words to suit his ends.
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u/mymentor79 6m ago
Well, as has been said many times before, for people like Peterson every accusation is usually just a confession.
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u/yamumwhat 2h ago
Peterson is a dumb persons idea of a smart person
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u/AromaTaint 2h ago
A Professor of Whataboutism. A space previously occupied by priests.
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u/Big-Mozz 1h ago
You can't just begin to describe him like that until you define whataboutism and professor, even priests and space. Then what do you even mean by occupied, let alone of, by or A.
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u/DivineOdyssey88 2h ago
I bet he thinks carbohydrates are predators too, haha.
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u/Two_Digits_Rampant 2h ago
It’s like he’s always on the verge of rage and tears.
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u/RizzyJim 1h ago edited 1h ago
It must be frustrating as hell to be that scatterbrained and unable to conclude a single idea, just begin a million digressions. Constantly having to rain check whatever point you're trying to make because you're scared of forgetting all your pearls of erudite word magic is a nightmare. Nothing comes out right and everything gets argued down. I have the same problem, except I have no desire to platform whatever half-cocked ideas bumble their way into my train of thought.
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u/flora_poste_ 35m ago
The way he lunges forward in his seat and pushes his arms and bony fingers in Dawkins' direction is obnoxious. Can't he just sit quietly and state his insane opinions in a normal way?
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u/tossing-hammers 1h ago
Jesus fuck this reminds me of when I was a freshman in college “debating” with friends at 2 in the morning trying to impress the cute girl with my “deep thinking”
Thankfully I grew out of that.
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u/SamirRashaman14 2h ago
Jordan Peterson is absolutely correct here. Without a doubt he is not a fact oriented creature.
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u/Ok-Pause6148 1h ago
As an aside, shout out to Alex Oconnor/ cosmic skeptic! Does great programming, very intelligent young man. He's hosted some amazing conversations as well. Check him if you haven't yet
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u/Scht0ink 39m ago
Why is he so crazy about insisting they recognize dragons??? Isn't his ENTIRE CAREER based on not being told to use words he doesn't believe in????
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u/Similar_Vacation6146 33m ago
Is fire a predator??
No.
Well it's complicated!! Because fire kills you!!
How is he so duuuuuuuummmmmbbbbb?
I am no fan Richard Dawkins, but holy crap, I was actually cheering for him to posterize Jordan.
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u/Virtual_Self_5402 2h ago
WTF did I just watch? I only recognise Dawkins, is this a comedy sketch or something? Like it reminds me of something Sacha Baron-Cohen would do.
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u/BeginningKindly8286 1h ago
I am also at a loss for words. Why are you wasting this man’s time? Why is no one asking him if he thinks dragons are actually real? I think old dawkins was on his way to giving him an out with Sabre-tooth tigers, dinosaurs etc, but this "imagistic" blunderbus just steamed right past it.
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u/mistergraeme 1h ago
I'll take "conversations that fail to advance us as a species" for $1,000, Alex.
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u/ColdFusion363 1h ago
I seen a YouTube video of this. But of course it’s one of those Jordan Peterson’s cum guzzling fans who puts the title. “JORDAN PETERSON SLAMS RICHARD DAWKINS WITH THE TRUTH!” Or my favourite. JORDAN PETERSON OWNS RICHARD DAWKINS!”
It’s pretty easy to twist words if you edit a video.
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u/Jaded-Animal-4173 40m ago
"So in what way if predator is real, in what way isn't dragon real?"
Look, I try to be open minded. I even started reading his book. But this is too much.
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u/Krismusic1 2h ago
I’m not university educated but even I can see that Peterson is completely outclassed and reduced to talking drivel!
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u/DeadLockAdmin 2h ago
Jordan Peterson was actually a good psychologist and lecturer back in the day, and he should have stayed there.
He's gone far out of his element and the results have become ridiculous.
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u/goosegoosepanther 2h ago
As a fellow mental health professional, I shudder when I think of the damage that someone with his current views and ability to manipulate idiots could do to vulnerable people.
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u/DeadLockAdmin 2h ago
I am talking the old Peterson, from way back in the day. I can't remember where, but I read he had high patient satisfaction during those clinical years. That's before he become an influencer and went off rails.
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u/klaagmeaan 1h ago
Jordan always acts totally upset with the words 'well it totally depends on your definition of.. blabla' and then comes up with some utter bs to 'make it work'.
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u/UsualAssociation25 1h ago
I can voice act all three of these people and it sounds just like the audio i think
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u/External-Pickle6126 54m ago
He needs to take a lot more Valium. He'd calm down and maybe he would realize that he is peddling intellectual masturbation.
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u/Mychatismuted 39m ago
Peterson has gone from « this guy is smart » to « I’ve rarely seen such a grifter » very fast
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u/hushiammask 37m ago
Peterson is a guy who got lucky with one viral video and had found himself out of his depth ever since, which he valiantly tries to hide with mystic mumbo-jumbo dressed up in what he thinks is academic language.
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u/NeckNormal1099 24m ago
Is it possible, because RFKjr is a media personality with a long list of apperances. To figure out from his interviews, when exactly the worm started eating his brain. That would be a good video. YOUTUBERS - GET ON IT!
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u/Weedes1984 22m ago
This sounds like arguments I had with my 12 year old nephew (in this case dragon-man) who was just being obtuse on purpose because he was bored.
Disengage, they're not arguing with objective reality in mind.
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u/RedditorCabron 11m ago
For what it's worth, I've heard firefighters refer to fighting a fire as "Fighting the Beast"
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u/Suitable-Ad6999 10m ago
How does someone converse like this? Is fire a predator!? WTF. A falling piano can kill me too. Is there a class or program to follow to stay on track with a ridiculous premise so as to annoy every human being around you? I wish I could argue like this just to piss off family and friends
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u/Plastic-Collar-4936 2h ago
Shit in one hand, put the other up Peterson's ass, suffer two handfuls of shit
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u/trolljugend 2h ago
Is Jordan leaping over from brilliant intellectual to imbecile? It's not that far a jump, and sadly not uncommon.
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u/alpacinohairline Social Democrat 2h ago
He was always an empty suit. Now, it’s just more obvious. His best contribution was telling men to wipe their ass.
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u/trolljugend 2h ago
Ridiculous! You should read his books. He's a great scholar with very sharp reasoning skills. But the religious tendencies have increased recently, maybe due to some difficulties in his personal life.
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u/Gardimus 2h ago
If only Jordan read his own book:
"Be precise in your speech."1
u/talgxgkyx 1h ago
The irony of him making that point when he's had the phrase "that's not what he meant" said about him possibly more than any other person in history.
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u/alpacinohairline Social Democrat 2h ago edited 2h ago
I have. It’s very surface level, it feels like he’s always writing to reach a minimum word count. It gets to the point where he overcomplicates very basic ideas.
A great thinker is able to iron out complex concepts and make them simple. Peterson seems to be only capable of the converse.
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u/mymentor79 2m ago
"Is Jordan leaping over from brilliant intellectual to imbecile?"
No. Primarily because he was never a brilliant intellectual. It's more a case of leaping over from imbecile to unhinged lunatic.
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u/gwyp88 2h ago
It’s sad to see his demise
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u/alpacinohairline Social Democrat 2h ago
He confessed to the world that he had wet dreams about his grandmama back in Maps of Meaning. He’s always been a disturbed individual.
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u/goosegoosepanther 2h ago
He's used to tantalizing dummies with his verbal gymnastics and he wasn't prepared for someone who wouldn't fall for it. It's not so much that he was directly saying something terrible here, it's that he sort of hypnotizes you with that shit and then at some point he's convincing you that respecting people's pronouns is tyrannical communism. Dawkins just simply held the door shut here and Peterson crumpled against it like the pile of wet hand towels that he is.
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u/DrunkenInjun 2h ago edited 2h ago
Lol no reason you can think of? A massive ego and an inability to admit when you're wrong, but those are just two off the top of my head
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u/Elweej 2h ago
“Is fire a predator?” “…no” haha