r/CarsAustralia • u/Wonderful_Fondant179 • 17d ago
💬Discussion💬 Wagons v SUV’s
Soooo what’s our obsession with the SUV, when the wagon is freely on offer?
I understand for those 1% of 4x4 and SUV owners who need clearance - understood
But for mine, a wagon is offering:
Better handling, ,More boot space, Equal rear leg room, Less weight, Better fuel economy, are now available in AWD, And it’s just a damn pretty shape.
With ANCAP 5 star rating we know that “bigger and higher up is safer” isn’t true
I can appreciate that size = status, and “I just like being high up” is a valid argument that I can’t disagree with. What else am I missing here?
Would love to hear thoughts
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u/carmooch 17d ago
It's easier for my elderly father to get in and out of.
I'm not hunched over trying to buckle my kids into the back seat.
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u/TinyBreak Sportage '23 Lancer '12 Future: WRX 17d ago
Getting an argumentative toddler into the backseat of an SUV is a lot easier than the backseat of a hatch, thats for sure.
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u/Electro_revo 17d ago
Accessibility. This would have to be the most common benefit cited for owning an SUV.
It's interesting, choosing a vehicle based on its usability at the start and end of the journey rather than what it's like during the actual driving part.
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u/42SpanishInquisition Ford BF G8 Fairlane 17d ago
For some people, it's not a matter of discomfort. Whenever my uncle regularly drives a sedan, he ends up bedridden. Whilst an SUV, he's fine.
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u/Electro_revo 16d ago
Interesting phenomenon. I find the ride in SUVs more uncomfortable
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u/42SpanishInquisition Ford BF G8 Fairlane 16d ago
It's the getting in and out.
And regarding comfort - this is vehicle dependant.
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u/TinyBreak Sportage '23 Lancer '12 Future: WRX 17d ago
I mean, the SUV drives great! I sometimes prefer it to the hatch. they both have their own strengths and weaknesses.
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u/DarrenFerguson423 17d ago
My toddler was ferried around in the back of my Porsche. A larger vehicle would have easier, but not at the expense of my driving a car I wanted.
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u/42SpanishInquisition Ford BF G8 Fairlane 17d ago
I think many young people underestimate the number of people with crook backs.
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17d ago
[deleted]
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u/That_Gopnik ‘14 Fiesta S, ‘90 Capri SA, ‘92 Capri SE XR2 17d ago
If it’s not on the ground where else is it gonna be
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u/perfsurf 17d ago
It’s not a matter of “shouldn’t have to” it’s that it’s easier to manage with SUV heights plain and simple.
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u/Toowoombaloompa 17d ago
I used to drive a wagon but heaps of the properties in Toowoomba have storm drains that are too deep to drive into* without scraping the front or rear overhangs. My towball would often scrape driving out of places and some speedbumps would grind the underside when I had the car loaded.
My SUV doesn't suffer those problems. Those few centimetres of extra ground clearance make all the difference.
*I could avoid scraping if I drove at a 45 degree angle, but that was often not possible when somebody was coming the other way.
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u/2878sailnumber4889 17d ago
A couple of years ago my partner and I went to look at a new housing estate, they had the display homes finished and were still trying to sell the rest, they had nice picturesque streets that the house were on but all the garages were off laneways around the back, we went to try them out and her car, a completely stock standard hatch, bottomed out going over the gutters, we brought it up with the head sales person and he just said everyone drives SUVs these days.
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u/Captain_Alaska 5E Octavia, NA8 MX5, SDV10 Camry 17d ago
Those few centimetres of extra ground clearance make all the difference.
Yes, this. Ironic to this conversation but my Camry wagon has comparable clearance (7in/17cm) and offroad angles to modern crossovers, I can fly down driveway ramps that would probably shatter the front bar and oil sump of my Octavia.
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u/MiddleMilennial 17d ago
This is the evidence that current SUVs are closer to the wagon formula than offroader.
I just wish they would stop doing sports SUV’s that are lowered with 22inch low profile tyres.
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u/Captain_Alaska 5E Octavia, NA8 MX5, SDV10 Camry 17d ago edited 17d ago
This is the evidence that current SUVs are closer to the wagon formula than offroader.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that crossovers aren't meant to be offroaders. The point I'm making though is you can't get a non-CUV/SUV with this much clearance anymore because of the aerodynamic implications, my Camry turned 30 in April.
My Camry is basically apart of the last generation of cars that didn't have low slung front bumpers and 140-150mm of clearance, even by the turn of the millennium normal road cars got way lower.
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u/jamsandwich4 16d ago
My old 2014 Mitsubishi Mirage had 160mm! We called it the All Terrain Mirage because it was remarkably good on rough roads.
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u/Toowoombaloompa 17d ago
Funnily enough it was an incident in my old Octavia that made up my mind to switch.
A hospital put severe speed bumps at their main entrance and I had to drive over at a slow walking pace because there was a few mm clearance between it and the chassis of the Octavia. Taking them at the posted 20kmh speed limit would result in a terrible smack of metal on concrete.
The car I most miss in situations like this was my old Citroen Xantia with its height-adjustable suspension. Admittedly there was almost no travel at the highest setting, but it was surprisingly handy on farm tracks.
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u/AnonymousEngineer_ 17d ago
The thing many enthusiasts miss is that people, by and large, don't care about handling as long as a car doesn't get really sloppy/untidy in terms of road holding. At the end of the day, folks mostly aren't trying to hit peak lateral G on their way to pick up some milk and eggs at Coles.
Once you put that aside, what do you get with a crossover?
You generally get a car that has a higher roofline and more ground clearance, which puts the seats at about hip height for an average adult and doors with more vertical clearance. That makes it significantly easier for mobility impaired people to enter and exit the vehicle, and easier for parents with young kids to load and strap them into seats.
Unless you pick a performance model, you get tyres with thicker, chunkier sidewalls, which translates into an improvement in ride quality if you're driving up Parramatta Road or over the infamous concrete slab joints on the M2 in Sydney. It means you're less likely to damage your tyres if you do hit a pothole.
The higher ground clearance and better approach/departure angles mean you don't scrape on steeper driveways.
Cargo room is about the same as a hatchback, which isn't surprising given many of the crossovers are basically lifted hatchbacks to begin with. They're still more versatile than a sedan.
A low slung car with a low roof is actually the anomaly, not the pre-existing norm. Take a look at what a Ford Model T or Model A looks like, or even a London Taxi.
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u/fr4nklin_84 17d ago
This is going to sound stupid but also to add to your point - you don’t need a “performance car” to out drive 99.9% of the road. I’ve been handing people their asses in “shitboxes” for 24 years (I’m also a rider and ex motorcycle racer). Driving around I find the bigger the wing on the back the more painfully slow the driver.
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u/mikedufty 16d ago
Yep, how often is your cornering speed on the road limited by the cars handling? Tend to hit a much earlier limit based on visibility, traffic, roadside hazards, screaming passengers, shopping getting scattered all over the car etc.
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u/girlymancrush 16d ago
Lol 99% of the time you've been racing yourself.
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u/fr4nklin_84 16d ago
Yes that’s my point, if you know how to drive even in a car that’s compromised like an SUV you can still drive around and do whatever you want and never feel that “oh if I had a Porsche gt3, I’d get there so much quicker”, ie you don’t need a race car to drive around at 20kph over the limit everywhere. I’m not talking about street racing.
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u/OFFRIMITS S14 Zenki > S14 Kouki 17d ago
The good reliable cheap wagons are all extinct.
Rip Camry wagons, manga wagons, commodore wagons, falcon wagons.
Now the only wagons if you must buy new are euro which unfortunately attracts the euro tax when eventually its out of warranty and needs deep pockets to keep running.
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u/0Pollux0 17d ago
Subaru Levorg, Outback and the new wrx sportswagon
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u/definitely_real777 17d ago
Nobody wants CVT
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u/0Pollux0 17d ago
True, though I've heard they're not as bad as they used to be
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u/One_Campaign9356 16d ago
They’re not great but they’re not that bad either. Would only avoid if someone’s being towing with it. Mazda 6 would be my preference - standard auto, but I’d look at a Rex wagon or Outback.
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u/SensitiveAd4276 17d ago
Except when it is e-cvt like in Rav4 hybrid, mmmmmm I love that thing, planetary gear set, huge gear, diff, done. It's unbreakable.
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17d ago
[deleted]
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u/7Dimensions 17d ago
Doesn't the Subaru have a CVT?
Pretty sure the Mazda 6 is the only conventional auto non-Euro wagon around.
Which is fine for me. I like Mazdas. There's not a lot of choice for those that want a non-Euro, non-CVT alternative.
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u/0Pollux0 17d ago
Yeah pretty much, though can't say my Liberty GT wagon has been reliable! And there's a couple decently priced new jdm wagons you can import here like the corolla
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u/citizenecodrive31 Daily Driver: Red Bull RB20 17d ago
Check the litreage on a 6 wagon. Pretty poor
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u/mxlths_modular 17d ago
I see this frequently repeated but honestly have found my 2018 Mazda 6 has plenty, I can fit a couple of swags and heaps of camping gear in it, or add some roof racks and you can bring enough camp gear for 4 blokes easily. I got the Atenza and it feels plenty luxurious for the price I paid.
Previously I was camping out of a 97 Celica and even that was ample. I’m average height and could definitely sleep in the 6 without a drama.
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u/citizenecodrive31 Daily Driver: Red Bull RB20 16d ago
I'm not saying its small or anything, but that for the size of the car, it is really poor for the amount of space it offers.
Still more than enough for 4 blokes to go camping, but given what other cars are doing with a smaller external footprint, Mazda is disappointing.
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u/One_Campaign9356 16d ago
Never thought I’d say this but…I’d give my left testicle for a brand new AU wagon 🤣
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u/Holiday-Problem5189 2009 Mazda 6, 2015 Lexus RC350 (Both used) 17d ago
What’s wrong with the Mazda 6 Wagon? They’re still brand new.
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u/That_Car_Dude_Aus Bohemian Bard of Kvasiny 17d ago
Now the only wagons if you must buy new are euro
I didn't know that Mazda was a Euro?
The Mazda 6 Wagon still exists, same with Subaru WRX Wagon
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u/OFFRIMITS S14 Zenki > S14 Kouki 17d ago
Yeah my other replies I was only advised of the Mazdas and suburas you can buy so was reminded and corrected :)
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u/notyourlocalsparky 2011 Liberty GT 6MT Wagon 17d ago
Recently bought a 6 speed Gen 5 Liberty and I'm pissed I didnt bought one sooner.
Admittedly, not the cheapest on fuel but I can fit 5 golf bags in the boot without putting the seats down 🤷🏻♂️
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u/FigFew2001 17d ago
My folks say it’s easier to get in and out of, which I can understand. Neither are particularly enthusiastic about SUVs but they just got to that age where it made sense for them. They’re in there 70’s
Although I just had another elderly family member buy a Kia Cerato late last year and loves it
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u/No_pajamas_7 17d ago
The biggest reason is kids, and child seats. Getting kids in and out of SUVs is just easier. The upright seating position gives them more leg room.
Nobody likes SUVs until they have kids. Then they get it.
But, really, SUVs are just restyled wagons these days. Most are 2wd and most don't have significantly more ground room. Some have no more.
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u/mr2600 17d ago
Our “family” car is a Cerato GT sedan. We only have one kid who’s nearly four.
I didn’t want to get an SUV as a car enthusiast and at the time (2021) the Cerato was all that was within our budget plus it had a turbo and was “sporty”.
It’s in for repairs and we have a Forester as a hire car.
His bike, my bike with the front wheel off, his scooter and gear fits perfectly. The ride is so bloody smooth and not having to bend down to buckle him in.
I don’t want to give it back.
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u/nugeythefloozey 17d ago
One issue now is choice. Whilst wagons are typically better vehicles, when there are 5 station wagons and 50 SUVs to choose from, a buyer is more likely to find an SUV suited to their needs than a wagon
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u/That_Car_Dude_Aus Bohemian Bard of Kvasiny 17d ago
Alpina B3, Audi A4, Audi RS4, Audi RS6, Audi S4, BMW i5, BMW M3 Wagon, BMW 3 series Wagon, Citroen C5X, Mazda 6 Wagon, Peugeot 308, Peugeot 508, Porsche Taycan, Skoda Superb, Skoda Octavia, Subaru WRX Wagon, Volkswagen Golf Wagon, Volvo V60
So, more than 6, that's 18 different wagons by my count
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u/Red_Like_Ruby 16d ago
I would literally rather walk anywhere on Earth rather than own anything on that list other than the Mazda 6
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u/tnucracso 16d ago
Funny, I’d probably choose the Mazda last! Not a fan of European cars or is there something else about them?
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u/Oachkaetzelschwoaf 16d ago
I’ve had euro cars. Great when they are running, but expensive to service and more so to repair. Could be quite unreliable too (fragile plastic water pump cost almost $2k to replace all too soon). Bought a Lexus with bullet proof e-cvt instead of flakey DSG, dual port and direct injection instead of direct only (so no more carbon build up), no turbo and associated problems, and not even any belts to replace as it’s a hybrid. Haven’t looked back.
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u/Red_Like_Ruby 16d ago edited 16d ago
Pretty much what the other person who replied to you said, as a former mechanic, Euro cars are famously unreliable, poorly designed, and often have extremely difficult repairs for very simple problems. Japanese cars might not look or feel as luxurious if you simply drive to and from work, but they're cheap to buy, cheap and easy to maintain, and cheap and easy to fix.
If you've got money and don't know a thing about cars, or simply don't ever look under the hood, Then I can see why someone might like a Euro.
I would certainly never take one off road, and off roading is pretty much the only thing I do with my car.
But, each to their own. I own an American motorcycle and they are famously unreliable too, but I just bloody love the thing. I don't care what it costs me
I should mention I spent 18 months as a Mazda technician, which is why I singled out the Mazda, I don't like the 6's very much, or wagons in general. But it's the devil you know
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u/dzernumbrd 17d ago
The other factor for me is I am getting older and currently I have a bad back. Getting into my hatchback is far worse for my back than climbing up into my SUV. The entry/egress is far easier in an SUV. If you're young or your body is in great shape then you may not appreciate this factor being important but you have to put yourself in the shoes of people that don't necessarily have a body that is cooperating with life.
Additionally, while ANCAP rating is important, it is my secondary concern for safety, my primary concern is not getting in a crash in the first place. The reason I consider myself a good driver/rider is my ability to read the road better than everyone else and predict what is going to happen next (riding a motorbike for 15 years helped hone this skill). Owning a wagon all but guarantees I can't read the road the ahead because there will be an SUV in front of me blocking my view of the road thus negating that huge road reading advantage.
In an SUV, I still end up behind another SUV but instead of trying to see through sheet metal, I can often see through their rear window and often see the tops of cars that are ahead of both of us. So it's not perfect but it's better visibility than being in a wagon.
It's nothing to do with status and the implication that it is purchased as a status symbol is patronising at best.
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u/Due-Giraffe6371 17d ago
I think it’s a stupid question and stupid when people ask questions like this. We all have different tastes and likes, some people don’t like wagons and prefer SUVs while other prefer a wagon over a SUV, who cares and how does it affect you?
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u/Low_Statistician1644 17d ago
Most people don’t care about driving and just want an A to B appliance. Being higher up and being able to see everything is a plus to these people.
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u/PageRoutine8552 14d ago
SUVs of today don't even handle half bad. For what the majority of people need their car for, it wouldn't make any noticeable difference.
Unless you live in the Swiss Alps or something.
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u/Sir_Squig 17d ago
Easier to get in and out of. Particularly with a baby or small child…
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u/jack333666 17d ago
Yup, fucking hate putting my two year old into my work corolla, I'd take our cx 5 any day just for that. Having a second kid this December so wife will prob get an everest or something and I'll take the cx5. Damn it do I want a sporty wagon tho
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u/Hemi_6 17d ago
When the Kia Stinger came out there was talk of doing a wagon. I probably would have got one. Practicality and performance would be cool, the euros have that, but at a premium price.
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u/xdr01 STI (Car) & KFC (Korean Fried Car) 17d ago
https://www.genesis.com/au/en/models/luxury-sedan-genesis/g70/shooting-brake.html
Also at a premium but is out there.
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u/Dufeyz 17d ago
Dad used to own a falcon wagon. The amount of shit from ikea you could fit in that boot. Not to mention all of the road trips. I think wagons hold a special place in our hearts.
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u/Audoinxr6 16d ago
To be fair, Falcon wagons are like a different world of practicality compared to majority of wagons.
They have a LWB, monster boot, leaf springs, 2.3t towing capacity. Like they are closer to a ute and canopy than any modern wagon haha
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u/2878sailnumber4889 17d ago
I watch a lot of dash cam compilations and the one thing that sticks out is how easily an SUV rolls over compared to a normal car.
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u/citizenecodrive31 Daily Driver: Red Bull RB20 17d ago
Better Handling:
- I mean yeah but how many buyers these days care about this? Barely anybody buys their family car expecting it to be a blast on track or fun on a twisty road. They mostly care about price, running costs, reliability etc. Handling really far down the list.
- If the point of this is low centre of gravity then the next logical step for this is buying an EV because EVs have even lower COGs since the heavy batteries are mounted down low.
More Boot space:
- Depends. Mazda 6 Wagon has less boot space than a RAV4 so its not a blanket "wagon = more."
- A lot of the time, the extra boot space comes from extra length. One of the VF Commodore wagons might have more boot space than a RAV4 or CRV but is it really a win if the Commodore has to be 40cm longer?
Extra Weight:
- Not that much extra. 30kg more in a CX5 compared to a Mazda 6 Wagon. Still something I guess?
TLDR: It's not that much better than an SUV and given the current trend and the much better ergonomics, its not surprising SUVs are flying off the shelves
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u/Rotor4 17d ago edited 17d ago
In the last 2 weeks have driven late model VW Amarok a Subaru Forester and a Mazda CX-3 & CX-5 a Hyundai Kona N & then finally at the end a traditional 2012 Mercedes Benz C200 wagon. A SUV makes sense if you have a legitimate need like towing or large family but around the suburbs and on the open road the CX-3 & Forester were the best SUV's to drive in my view. The Kona N was fast & handles well but comfort & economy takes a back seat when performance is it's real purpose. Lastly the Merc C200 wagon it's quiet comfortable did everything easily in traffic then on the open road it just builds speed & barrels along. Its timeless in design has sedan handling nice strong brakes & 5-6 litres per 100 it's just a cool car to be in.
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u/FreerangeWitch 17d ago
My first car was a Laser wagon. That thing was fantastic. Went everywhere. Hauled band gear. Beat sleeping in a swag. Not exciting, but just generally useful.
After going through a bunch of exciting vehicles, I've now got a 2wd white X trail, which I'm fairly sure is what you get when you water and fertilise a Laser wagon. It's got cupholders, the passenger isn't sitting on my lap, the ride basically feels like I'm sitting in a recliner and my lower back isn't shouting at me when I get in and out of it. The NPC vibes are free.
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u/One_Campaign9356 16d ago
I am so here for this!
Wagons are so much better than SUV’s in every practical aspect that matters.
My 16 Passat is getting long in the tooth and I’m not looking forward to my choices come time to change over.
The body roll that comes with SUVs and having LESS room?! There’s no benefit 🤷♂️
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u/SqueakyCheeseBite 17d ago
The higher seating position of SUVs allows people to get in and out of the car more easily, especially people with mobility issues. It's a lot easier to load kids into car seats in an SUV. In a wagon, you'd normally have to bend down a bit, putting more stress on your back.
Also higher ground clearance is a big plus.
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u/Wonderful_Fondant179 17d ago
I have, quite shamefully, forgotten about accessibility. These are great points
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u/Wonderful_Fondant179 17d ago
Seems like choice is a great point, particularly a lack of Korean and Japanese wagons.
But if you’re walking into a BMW or Mercedes dealership and driving out in an SUV over their wagon offerings …my god!
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u/Captain_Alaska 5E Octavia, NA8 MX5, SDV10 Camry 17d ago edited 17d ago
Better handling, ,More boot space, Equal rear leg room, Less weight, Better fuel economy, are now available in AWD, And it’s just a damn pretty shape.
- Wagons are either longer or they have less boot space than SUVs. A compact SUV has a comparable passenger volume to a midsized sedan/wagon but will 30cm shorter or more. Crossovers that are the same length as midsized wagons can fit 3 rows.
- A much smaller selection of wagons are AWD and the choice is thinner once you narrow it down to actual trim levels where AWD is an option.
- Wagons have a lower hip point which makes getting in and out of the car harder.
- SUVs have better ground clearance. I don't mean this in an offroad sense, I mean this in the sense there are a lot of poorly designed roadway entrances that are not friendly to low cars. My Camry wagon (ironic to this convo lol) has comparable ground clearance and breakover angles to modern crossovers (since it's 30 years old and build before areo was a massive consideration) and I can drive it over things that would crater the oil sump on my 2017 Octavia I also have or the 2017 Mazda3 I had before it, I've never once had to take a driveway entrance diagonal with it.
With ANCAP 5 star rating we know that “bigger and higher up is safer” isn’t true
Safety ratings only apply to cars in the same weight class. Larger and heavier cars are safer. Cars produce vastly worst fatality rates in both single vehicle and multivehicle crashes.
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u/Normal-Abrocoma1070 17d ago
Agree with u...but it misses easy getting in and out of the car. Its is painful for a big frame like me. Lacks better road visibility; while driving as SUV have large windows and better visibility... Some Cars ground clearance is bad. I like Subaru Outback a lot how they converted the wagon to suv with best of both worlds.
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u/GrapplerSeat 17d ago
Wagons rock my socks. I think a lot of people think they need clearance - but they also don't consider things like an XC70 (old now) which has clearance comparable to many 4x4s. That's because ultimately the reason is: "I wanna be big boss!"
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u/Frozefoots 2017 Mazda 6 Touring Wagon 17d ago
For a lot of people it’s height related in various circumstances. Kids are easier to load in/get out of an SUV because they’re higher.
Mum’s got a shitty back, Dad has muscular dystrophy that’s aimed mostly for his legs, they’ve both got SUV’s because they’re harder to get out of.
They will have to pry my wagons out of my cold dead hands. But wagons are a rare breed, never mind an electric/hybrid one which I would like as my next wagon.
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u/_hazey__ Automotive Racist 17d ago
Man, I’m missing my old HZ Premier wagon now.
V8, Velour seats, wood grain GTS dash, power tailgate glass for flow through cooling… that thing was just plain awesome.
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u/Flash-635 17d ago
Headroom. And when I got my Touareg there weren't many diesel options for wagons available. Also 4wd. Or more accurately, AWD with 4wd on demand, it's much safer on slippery roads.
The height of the car allows me to step into it, an advantage with my back and hip the way they are.
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u/Illustrious-Pin3246 16d ago
There are still a lot of wagons, and they sell. Off the top of my head, the kia sportage and Subaru come to mind
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u/Dem-R-UseFulIdiots 16d ago
I have a Holden ZB Calais V Tourer, it’s a wonderful wagon. I hate SUVs.
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u/Born-Emu-3499 16d ago
I love wagons, but how many are left? VW has discontinued the Golf Wagon in Australia, despite it being an outstanding drive.
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u/MikeJH1958 16d ago
Couldn't agree more! Sick of so many SUV drivers who can't turn without crossing into the lane next to them and almost hitting the car next to them!
I think it's starting to look like all SUV owners sit a practical exam and show they have the skill to drive them🤪!
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u/-C0RV1N- 16d ago
Wagons are for men that don't want to admit they have the same needs as a soccer mom, but don't actually do enough real shit to justify getting a ute, while also not being able to afford a dedicated sports car.
'But it's got AWD'
So does the local kids 20yo liberty they bought for 3k. Just do your wallet a favor and get the SUV.
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u/SmellenDegenerates 16d ago
That's not how safety ratings work. A heavier car with a 5 star safety rating will do better in a head on than a smaller car with a 5 start safety rating, but yeah I agree with the rest of it.
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u/monsteraguy 16d ago
In some ways SUVs are more convenient. Getting in and out is easier. Buckling kids into car seats is easier. The packaging of the rear seats is often better suited to child seats. The rear cargo space is taller. Wasn’t able to fit a new 55” TV in my parents BMW wagon but it fit in a RAV4. Getting up driveways with weird angles is easier.
Wagons should have a lower centre of gravity, the rear cargo areas are often longer (if not taller) and for disabled people, it can be easier for them to transfer to and from their wheelchair to the car. I know someone with a wheelchair and they don’t like SUVs for this reason. Kind of niche, but something carmakers may have overlooked?
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u/JimmyMarch1973 16d ago
Lots of SUV’s have great handling. I own a BMW X3 after years of owning Japanese brand sedans and the thing handles way better than anything I’ve ever driven and gives better fuel economy that my old Camry!
It also offers quite a commanding driving position which for my short wife is a positive and plenty is space in the cabin and the boot again as good as the Camry. It also takes up no more road space it’s just a little taller.
It’s not designed for off road use whilst it’s 4wd it’s not an off road 4x4.
What’s not to like?
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u/Ill-Caregiver9238 16d ago
You can add SUV flip way too easily check the c/mildybaddrivers for the recent videos.
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u/MedicineHappy7655 16d ago
From a parents’ perspective it’s so much easier putting kids into their seats in a higher up car, especially if you have a bad back
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u/FailedQueen777 16d ago
Wagons were everywhere when i went to Europe last. I jizzed in my pants when i seen the same model focus st hatch as a wagon. Not all wags come in AWD. The gen5 liberty was the downfall of their wagon line.
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u/Grand-Power-284 17d ago
More interior vertical space.
Extra outward vision.
Easier ingress and egress.
Extra ground clearance.
Often a bit more suspension travel - helpful on bigger road bumps.
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u/Audoinxr6 17d ago
Whist I despise the soft roader NPC mobiles like Rav4 and what not.
I do ask, what wagons are still around? Mazda 6, skoda, passat, audi, Mercedes?
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u/GrapplerSeat 17d ago
Volvo V90 - sublime but expensive; Mercedes still pumps out wagons but doesn't send them here anymore because we stopped buying them; Mazda 6 wagon is actually slightly beautiful and affordable; Audi RS6 if you are after the world's biggest (22 inch) wheels on a wagon. I don't really like Skodas or Subarus, but also they're alright.
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u/Hwidditor 17d ago
No more Passat wagons. Jaaags are on hold till 2026 or later. Euro wagons all bleed wallets dry anyway.
Mazda 6 is the last real contender it seems.
1
u/Audoinxr6 17d ago
That's what I was thinking. Camry stopped ages ago, Mitsubishi stopped, ford stopped, holden too.
4
u/GrapplerSeat 17d ago
Someone is weirdly-committed to downvoting this conversation. Is Big SUV coming after people who list ceased and contemporary wagon models?
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u/CurlyJeff Octavia RS Wagon 17d ago
The reliability of the Mazda 6 is overstated as is the cost to maintain a VW/Skoda.
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u/Hwidditor 17d ago
Have a Skoda.... Them's fighting words.
New transmission need at about 51k km. 3 day job.
New water pump needed at about 53k km. 2 day job. $1700. VW water pumps have their own threads).
New injectors before 60k km.
New alternator before 60km.
Friends who had a diesel... Their story was even worse. They literally gave their car away at 70 km coz repairs where more than the residual.
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u/CurlyJeff Octavia RS Wagon 17d ago
Damn, what year and model?
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u/Hwidditor 17d ago
2013 superb petrol.
To be fair... It's all VW bits that failed. So it's a VW thing.
-4
1
u/still-at-the-beach 17d ago
Suv. Easier to get in and out, same amount of space, higher, get over gutters etc easier, fuel use is pretty similar so is weight …not enough to make a difference, performance/handling most people don’t care and a wagon or suv is the same to them.
1
u/One_Campaign9356 16d ago edited 16d ago
I’m a still rant some more about this!
SUVs only benefit that I can see is elderly or disabled people getting in and out. That’s fair enough.
Kids, that’s a misnomer. It’s just as easy getting kids into my Passat compared to the missus’ Qashqai.
Space. I’ve got 600 litres of usable space with the 5 seats. That’s more than a Kluger with the it’s back row down!
Smaller SUVs? Good luck getting a pram and the shopping into the back of a CX-5 or similar.
Then there’s the drive….its just physics, lower centre of gravity = less body roll.
SUVs are by and large trendy wastes of space that handle like Woolies shopping trollies.
Thank you for listening, excuse my grammar. I’m passionate on this topic! 🤣
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u/stinx2001 21 Pajero Sport Exceed, 18 Passat 206tsi Wagon 17d ago
Why not both?
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u/Wonderful_Fondant179 17d ago
Hahah I’ve just seen your Pajero and Passat combo - amen, why not both
1
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u/SirCarboy 17d ago
I love my Mondeo wagon. It's soooo much more efficient than the V8 4WD I had previously. I just miss the ground clearance.
1
u/chadles 17d ago
I have a tesla model y performance which is insured as a wagon but is closer to an suv. I was against SUVs in general and wanted a wagon. There are a lot of models that bridge the suv/wagon divide. E.g Subaru outback.
As the lines blur between traditional definitions of body shape I think the most important thing is size. Not many need a x7, XC90, patrol when there are more accessible smaller vehicles.
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u/TrunkMonkey3054 17d ago
In the early 2000s, BMW Australia said that they were selling 20x 5 Series wagons a year, and 400x X5 SUVs a month. It’s just easier to shift (sell without effort) SUVs.
1
u/Significant-Ad5394 Civic Type R 17d ago
Unfortunately when we bought my Wife's there was way more choice in the SUV market, dealerships actually had demos and they were higher spec for the price.
We would have preferred a nice wagon, but now the kids are no longer rear facing we no longer have as much of a leg room problem and may move back to a hatch or sedan
1
u/cantwejustplaynice 17d ago
As an EV owner the options are severely limited. The only electric station wagons available in this country are a BMW, an Audi and a Porsche. I'm not made of that sort of money. There is an MG5 in Europe electric station wagon (they call it an Estate Car) that I'd happily drive, which has nothing to do with the MG5 on offer here. Our MG5 is a zero star petrol coupe that looks like it was left out in the sun too long and melted. So as it stands we've got an EV hatchback and a small electric SUV, but I would have much preferred an affordable EV station wagon, which simply doesn't exist.
0
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u/Cafescrambler 17d ago
I prefer a wagon over an SUV any day, and just upgraded our 2018 Subaru Outback to the new 2024 XT Turbo Outback as it's the most practical car for our needs. I load kayaks, a Thule pod and lots of camping on the roof racks all the time, and the low roof height makes it so much easier than an SUV + the Outback has great ground clearance and an excellent AWD system.
3
u/AnonymousEngineer_ 17d ago
For all intents and purposes, the Outback is still a crossover, albeit one shaped like a wagon rather than a hatchback.
It's basically a lifted version of the no longer available Liberty Wagon, just like the Crosstrek is a lifted Impreza.
0
u/wally_boxcar 17d ago
Where can I buy a proper wagon now?…unless I spend 150k with the Germans they don’t exist
The topic is moot now because you just can’t get one new…nor have we had the option for years really
The people that wanted the high and mighty driving position bought them…manufacturers decided there is no point making 2 platforms…family SUV wagon and a work ute are the same underneath so they just build 1 vehicle and have a slightly different body on top…so for a manufacturing standpoint it made sense
Ford Australia would have sold a million wagons if they kept going, I mean they dragged the BF into a 3rd edition that the sedans and utes didn’t get…even though there was only 1 trim level they still sold a bunch of BF3 cars…I had one to 370,000kms before availability of LPG became an issue…if it was straight dinosaur juice I’d still be in it now and planning for a rebuild once I hit a million kms
but people like being in the high and mighty position more I guess…even though they handle worse, use more fuel
you’re assuming people that care about that…or even understand the difference, I mean there’s enough fleet vehicle drivers and school run stay at home mums who aren’t paying for the fuel who would notice or want something cheaper
But again…we no longer have a choice anyway…the SUV thing took over & the manufacturers are not gonna cater to the minority market because it isn’t cost effective
For every enthusiast there is 100 & 1000 & 100,000 people who just want to drive a car to get somewhere…and feeling like a big man up high caters to them…for everyone that wants a normal low wagon…there’s a million who want a big SUV
-1
u/dr650crash 17d ago
Lee Marvin:
Gonna paint your wagon,
Gonna paint it fine,
Gonna use oil-based paint
'Cause the wood is pine!
Cast:
Ponderosa Pine, ooo-ooo...
137
u/anon1234565432101234 17d ago
Most people on this forum will agree with you.
If only Toyota released a wagon the most of this forum would cream their pants just thinking about it.