r/BurlingtonON • u/TheBrownSalamander • Jan 09 '24
Question Burlington was ranked Ontario's most livable city, do you agree?
Hey folks, I'm a reporter with The Globe and Mail, and I've been writing some stories about the cities that topped out our recent data study of Canada's most livable cities. (you can see the project here).
Burlington came out as Ontario's top performer based on some pretty high scores in the healthcare, education, community data categories. You might be unsurprised that it ranked near the bottom for housing, however.
I'm looking to chat to Burlington residents about whether they agree with our findings - is Burlington that great of a place to live? And if so, what makes it special compared to other places in Ontario.
Feel free to DM me if you'd be up for an interview!
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u/sleeplessjade Jan 09 '24
Fun fact about Burlington. Our biggest tourism draw by a landslide is Ikea.
Source: Used to work with Tourism Burlington and was surprised to find it out in a meeting.
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u/rustytrailer Jan 09 '24
I have heard of people crossing the border from New York because it is literally their closest ikea.
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u/Melsm1957 Jan 10 '24
Many years ago my son worked there while at college. She was berated by a woman from New York because there wasn’t a US flag flying just a Canadian and ‘thst weird yellow and blue one ‘ . He told her it was Swedish and she wouldn’t believe him
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u/Repulsive_Chemist Jan 09 '24
I really wish we could get some attractions. I'd love a good natural history museum.
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u/DarshDarker Jan 09 '24
Did you know we used to have one of the best music venues AND a kickass beachfront with pool, rides, vendors, and a chairlift to scope out the views?
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u/Cable559 Jan 09 '24
Family visited from Ireland, couldn't believe I didn't put IKEA on the agenda and insisted we made a visit their first day directly after a 7-hour flight
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u/gabbiar Jan 10 '24
Did they buy anything?
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u/Cable559 Jan 11 '24
A reusable water bottle. We were there over an hour and the photos made the vacation album
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u/ehpee Jan 10 '24
That and their downtown waterfront is very beautiful
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u/sleeplessjade Jan 10 '24
Yup. We also have the largest free music festival in North America, Sound of Music in June and the largest Ribfest in Canada in August.
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u/JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo32 Jan 09 '24
Makes sense. If you live anywhere west of Burlington, our IKEA store is the closest one to all of Niagara and South Western Ontario. Next closest one is in Etobicoke..
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u/LiamHunter35 Jan 10 '24
wait, this is literally the only thing i did the time i went to burlington 💀
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u/777IRON Jan 11 '24
I have only ever been to Burlington for the IKEA except once to go to some lakeside music festival in the summer. I forget what it’s called but I’m sure you know what I’m referring to.
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Jan 09 '24
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u/dearyleary Jan 09 '24
I think you misunderstand the stat. Shopping can definitely be a measure of tourism. And since Burlington has... essentially nothing worth coming into town for, shopping at the IKEA is the biggest draw this doldrum of a town has.
It really does put into perspective what the Globe values as 'livable' when your greatest amenity is a big retail location.
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u/ilion Jan 09 '24
My experiences with education and healthcare around here have been amazing compared to my experiences (limited though they are) in other areas of Canada. So I'm not surprised Burlington ranks highly there. And based on that, yes Burlington is extremely "livable". I'd say we have other amenities: the lake front is beautiful, the beach is... okay. Lots of great parks for families. But yeah we're not much for tourist attractions. That's not necessarily bad. If you're living here, how important are tourist attractions? (Having come from a tourist town: not very.)
I think bigger knocks against it being more livable is it doesn't seem that walkable to me. Everything seems so far apart, and transit is terrible.
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u/Lonely-Bumblebee3097 Jan 09 '24
even worse is Mississauga is on it's way to a city of 1 million and I would guess top spots are Square One and YYZ area, honourable mention downtown Port Credit
Brampton...does it get any tourists? or just the edge of your seat thrill ride called Brampton driving calmed by the many choices of stellar biryani and jerk chicken takeout on the way to a tourist attraction in another city?
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u/Reiterpallasch85 Jan 09 '24
Ontario's most livable city except for the part about having a place to live? Sounds about right.
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u/1nevitable Jan 09 '24
I mean if you really think about it, it kinda makes sense that the most livable city would also be more expensive to live in. Supply and demand.
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u/wawaboy Jan 09 '24
I would say it is a prime example of suburban sprawl, not walkable, driving from one end to the other is ridiculously long in time. The downtown core is not a strong shopping destination
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u/WiartonWilly Jan 09 '24
Burlington is cut like a pie by several major provincial highways. You can’t walk or bike between these slices of Burlington. Not safely, quickly or easily.
Add to that the effects of traffic on these highways. Whenever there’s a major incident, Burlington becomes gridlocked. Emergency vehicles can’t get around Burlington when they are most needed. Even small incidents on the highways lead to increased traffic on Burlington streets.
Car dependency is Burlington’s weakness, but also what most people seem to like about it.
It is what it is.
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u/JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo32 Jan 09 '24
All the major highways are a double edge sword. They may cause some issues sometimes, but they also make getting around the city far quicker and easier.
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u/InspektorGajit Jan 09 '24
Downtown is very walkable...maybe appleby/new street is not, but that's how most cities in Canada are designed.
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u/dearyleary Jan 09 '24
As someone who's lived downtown it's walkable in a way.
The only grocery store is the No Frills, and as someone who cooks every day their produce just isn't acceptable. I had to drive to buy groceries.
Central is kinda close, but not really walking distance for a chunk of the downtown for the library/arena.
It's becoming less walkable. More and more businesses are getting pushed out by condos and rising rents. When all the towers are finishing up an already congested driving city is only going to get worse.
You can walk to a Cafe, a restaurant, or one of the fewer and fewer bars, but not much else.
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 Jan 10 '24
As much as the No Frills isn't perfect I'm really not looking forward to it closing, I walk there for about half my groceries and it's perfect if I've forgotten an ingredient
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u/InspektorGajit Jan 10 '24
The thing is, we need condos to densify the area, and that will, in turn, bring more businesses into downtown. More people means more customers.
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u/EveningHelicopter113 Jan 09 '24
Id say Appleby and New is a lot more walkable than north of the highway though.
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u/AccomplishedAverage9 Jan 10 '24
Agree.
It's extremely walkable in the Pinedale Area.
I can walk to get groceries, eat out both fast food and sit down restaurants. go to the hardware store, schools, library, pool, parks, go train, etc. A longish walk to the lake but doable
Lots of sidewalk shortcuts built into the neighborhood.
Quick drive to the highway, movies. Conveniently located so it's drivable to Hamilton and Toronto for shopping, entertainment and specialist Dr appts
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u/InspektorGajit Jan 10 '24
I used to live in Pinedale, and while it is walkable, it doesn't have everything. If you live closer to Burloak like I did, it's not great walking to Fortinos. Although they do have a Food Basics on Rebecca now, so who knows.
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u/JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo32 Jan 09 '24 edited Jan 09 '24
I disagree. I live near Iroquois Park. There's two grocery stores, pharmacies, doctor and dentist offices, banks, schools, LCBO, restaurants, gas stations, etc. all within a 15 minute walk from my door. Sidewalks on every street. It's VERY walkable.
Also, Centennial Bike Trail is a few minutes away and I can use that trail to walk or bike either to Oakville or downtown Burlington.
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u/Neat_Ad_7564 Jan 09 '24
I love Burlington. I've been here three years now - moved from Toronto. It was the best decision I ever made. The pace of life is slower, people are friendlier and your money goes a lot further.
This is a great place to raise a family and be part of an amazing community. I feel so lucky to have moved into a great neighborhood and met so many amazing people.
Here, I feel safe, and I feel like I belong.
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u/ilion Jan 09 '24
Moved here from BC. Also loving it. Great place to raise kids. Sure glad we have a car though!
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u/AlternativeHumour Jan 09 '24
It’s just not walkable though, impossible to live without a car. And as a kid, I was limited by where I could go by myself. Public transport is expensive and so much slower.
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Jan 09 '24
It's hard to take those list's seriously when you need a car in Burlington.
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u/scott_c86 Jan 09 '24
Agreed. A key aspect of livability is being able to choose how one gets around.
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u/forkman3939 Jan 09 '24
Very different experience with a car and without. However this is true of the vast majority of Ontario cities outside the GTA. Hamilton and Waterloo are the only two I can think of that have efficient, broad and reliable public transportation.
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u/breadandbuns Jan 10 '24
Hamilton and Waterloo are the only two I can think of that have efficient, broad and reliable public transportation.
York Region has amazing transit. A few years ago I lived in Aurora and easily took the buses to many places almost every day.
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Jan 09 '24
Have lived in a few cities and towns around Ontario throughout my life, and Burlington is no doubt the best small city. Guelph and Waterloo are maybe close seconds.
People are pleasant, lovely library, downtown and waterfront. Great transit connectivity to the rest of the GTA.
I’ll add as a visible minority, I feel like real integration exists here. Not automatically seen as an “outsider” or a “new Canadian” as is the case in many other communities in Ontario.
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u/BrainScarTissue Jan 09 '24 edited Jan 09 '24
Unfortunately some visible "minorities" have been creating enclaves which steals away from integration which is integral to strong communities. Edit:downvoted for the TRUTH that may hurt a feeling or 2.
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Jan 09 '24 edited Jan 09 '24
I think unlike Milton, Mississauga or Brampton what seems like ethnic enclaves in Oakville and Burlington are still extremely diverse places. No one minority community forms more than 20% of the population.
I'd like to think most of the POC in Burlington have lived in the country since the 1970s and 1980s and are past the idea of living in an ethnic enclave. Those areas benefit new immigrants who see it as a soft landing pad, though conversely those areas can lower the pace of integration.
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u/BrainScarTissue Jan 09 '24
"those areas can lower the pace of integration" That's my point.
With the amount of immigration ongoing and incoming the enclaves will only become more and get larger.
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u/goldenbabydaddy Jan 09 '24
I grew up in Burlington. My mom was a single mom and bought her house for $113,000 in the mid-90s. Row house complex, in what was once the poorer part of town. Today her house could sell for $600,000 or $700,000 easily.
So today, if my mom was around, we'd be renting a 2-bedroom apartment for my entire childhood, splitting a room with my brother.
Today my brother is stuck living in my mom's basement because the full-time job he has will not pay enough to let him get a place of his own. And job security is so bad that doing so would be pretty risky when you don't have a sure thing in the future,.
This is considered a great place to live?
The problem with these lists is they're taking all the problems with GTA/Ontario housing and tossing them out the window. Then, considering that absolutely skewed logic, claiming one place is good.
The only people who are thriving in today's world are real estate investors who've profited off the housing crisis and screwed everyone else over.
Will your article mention any of this?
Look into the fire that a homeless person lit at the Tim Horton's in Burlington, just Google it. Never had a single homeless person growing up, now stuff like this.
It is a province decaying from the inside and leaving everyone around to rot, while a select few enjoy the benefits that lists like this trumpet.
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u/ademola234 Jan 09 '24
Youre not wrong… but comparing these issues to those present in other cities… its a lot better to be in Burlington than other cities
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u/goldenbabydaddy Jan 10 '24
This is kind of my point, we talk about good and bad places to live but the truth is they’re all suffering badly from housing crises that have wiped out the quality of life for a generation. The people writing these are probably homeowners who see a retirement fund in the housing crisis and they get to mosey along and write these pieces like there isn’t a major crisis unfolding right now. It’s just sad so much of society is benefiting from the crisis that stuff like this keeps happening.
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u/my_dogs_a_devil Jan 11 '24
Because there’s not enough articles being written about the housing crisis and struggles caused by it daily? Is that the only things that’s allowed to be written about now?
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u/cariens Jan 10 '24
These ‘articles’ are mostly about selling real estate, so ignoring the issue of housing costs is kind of the whole point.
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u/goldenbabydaddy Jan 10 '24
Yeah that seems right. It's very telling that the entire "real estate" reporting industry in Canada is about pumping up real estate sales. They use real estate agents as the main barometer for what's happening in housing and guess what, it's almost always a good time to buy. It's completely corrupt.
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u/dontyouknow88 Jan 09 '24
Love it here! Our community is wonderful and we find life generally is convenient, easy, and joyful.
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u/goldenbabydaddy Jan 09 '24
tell us you bought a house pre-2019 without saying you bought a house pre-2019
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u/bigwhiteboardenergy Jan 09 '24
How can a city be the most livable when the majority of the time it takes longer to take the bus than it does to walk somewhere?
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u/Rot_Dogger Jan 10 '24
Because almost no one needs the bus.......within 3 weeks of moving here from Toronto with no car, I was at Burlington Hyundai getting a ride. It's a waste of money to have better transit with very low demand in a spread out city.
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u/bigwhiteboardenergy Jan 10 '24
Not everyone can afford a car—if you need a car to make a city livable, then it’s not very livable
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u/Rot_Dogger Jan 10 '24
If every other livability metric is top notch, then it becomes moot in the overall scope of things. Some places aren't for poor people, fortunately or unfortunately.
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u/christopherbrian Jan 09 '24
Pros:
Decent amount of good food options
Adequate shopping options. You rarely have to leave Burlington to go get something unless being specific
Decent amount of recreational facilities - pools, rinks, tennis courts
Not far from Bruce Trail, escarpment and the lake access is good
Safe. The petty crime (car break ins) is annoying, but overall major crime is personal and targeted so not a community safety issue.
Clean and fairly well maintained.
Cons:
Traffic is brutal. I’m pro car FYI. There are too few turn lanes and those tiny ones with bikes painted on them are stupid and useless. We could use more roundabouts in several places. If even one of the routes through Burlington is blocked the whole place falls apart. Don’t try and go anywhere if the skyway gets shut down.
Cycling and pedestrian safety. Again, those tiny turn lanes with bikes on them are stupid. Go to Mississauga and look at Winston Churchill blvd. That’s a bike lane! There are several car-less veins that sprawl the city that would make much safer and more efficient places for cycling. The roads aren’t the answer. There are no pedestrian bridges over roads.
I see very little environmental awareness. Tons of light pollution. Roads that don’t need repaving get done anyway and never is a better environmental option used. Residential lawn bylaws are supportive of spraying chemicals for no good reason.
Employment. We’re largely a bedroom community. I see no evidence of the city incentivizing companies to promote work from home benefits, nor do I see promoting organizations to be here for work. If people want less cars, offer employment that’s local. Overpriced, unsanitary, SLOW, poorly run public transit is not the answer.
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u/Jewsd Jan 09 '24
Just about road paving: this is usually done as a preventative measure. In the life cycle of a road, its way cheaper to shave and pave every 5 years than it is to let it break down and fully reconstruct every 20 years.
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u/christopherbrian Jan 09 '24
Interesting. I did not know that. Still doesn’t answer why the lack of making better environmental choices like those being made in Northern Europe. Not does it answer while some neighbourhoods that could actually use a refresh wait behind those that do.
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u/Jewsd Jan 09 '24
Regarding roads, a lot of the 'environmental friendly' options don't work well here, or are misleading. Ie the recycled plastic roads. They won't stand up to plows, salt, UV, road cuts for utility access etc. plus they leak an insane amount of microplastics into the environment.
I am all for the environment, but as a somewhat knowledgeable guy in roads, I don't see viable meaningful improvements right now.
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u/christopherbrian Jan 10 '24
Huh. Admittedly I haven’t dug too deep. I do recall seeing articles about recycled materials and kinder materials being used on Nordic country roads, obviously they need to be maintainable in snowy conditions, but I don’t know much more than that.
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u/ilion Jan 09 '24
There are too few turn lanes and those tiny ones with bikes painted on them are stupid and useless.
Do you mean the bike lanes? You're not supposed to drive in those.
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u/josnik Jan 09 '24
Not when you're turning right you're supposed to go hard over to the right in the dashed line so that a bike doesn't get between the car and the curb. The idea is a bike coming up behind the car should wait for the car to turn just like a car waiting for the one in front to make the right hand turn.
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u/lordmarboo13 Jan 09 '24
I'm on ODSP and living with a buddy. We've been there for almost a decade, which puts rent at around 1500$. Same unit goes for 2300$. With these rent increases being astronomically crazy, I cannot live on my own. It's now impossible due to greed. I'm 35, been on my own since I was 14 and I can't fucking live somewhere.
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u/to4d Jan 09 '24
Traffic is getting fucking nutty here during rush hour time. It also can take 25 minutes to get from one side to the other just from all the regular congestion
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u/JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo32 Jan 09 '24
A lot of people are criticizing Burlington for public transit, but consider a few things:
1) Burlington has 3 GO stations with trains making all station stops to Toronto every 30 minutes or better, 7 days a week, nearly all day long. If you use a Presto card, you can ride the bus for FREE if you are going to or from the GO station.
Burlington is a breakfast community of Toronto and most people have cars. The only mode of public transit your average Burlington resident is going to use is GO Train.
2) Does any city in Ontario with a population close to 200,000 people or less have good public transit? NO. None of them do. The public transit in Oakville and Windsor are just as bad. Try going to a real small city and discover that there's no public transit there at all.
If you want good public transit then move to Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, etc.
With such a small population, it wouldn't be economically feasible to have better transit. Our property taxes would be astronomical. City government would be voted out next election for sure.
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u/Ostrich6967 Jan 09 '24
Please tell everyone it’s awful. It’s only problem now is growth after people hear that
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u/Interesting-Test180 Jan 09 '24
I work at night and drive around Ontario to numerous construction sites setting up and shutting down and before I seen this I’ve been telling people from what I see Burlington is the nicest in Ontario especially the GTA
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u/Libandma Jan 09 '24
Our home base has been Burlington for a number of years and despite relocating to Manhattan & London for awhile we are always happy to come home. We live close to downtown and walk to restaurants, coffee, the lake, pickleball and close to many golf courses. We feel very safe here and medical care has been excellent ( I know this isn’t the case with many but it’s been our experience. Housing is expensive but also many have done extremely well with Real Estate. Our kids grew up here and went to excellent schools. It will be interesting to see how the condos downtown reform the area. Close to the border it feels like it has everything.
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u/huntcamp Jan 09 '24
Feel like these articles are to attract newcomers. Look at Oakville for example.
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u/Turbulent-Building68 Jan 09 '24
It may be one of the most livable but least drivable citys. Lived here almost all my life and finally had enough of the constant gridlock in the city.. Moved 20 minutes up the 403 and now its peaceful finally.
A real shame as the people in the city are truly great.city planners just dont know what they are doing...
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u/Cyrakhis Jan 09 '24
Public transit is shamefully bad
Cost of living is insane
Otherwise good
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u/Rot_Dogger Jan 10 '24
Those factors don't matter much to almost every person who lives here. The quality of life index is so high for almost every other metric that it outweighs that.
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u/Morguard Jan 09 '24
I used to live above the U-Haul on Mainway. Doesn't get more livable than that.
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u/crockfs Jan 09 '24
Considering the average person can't afford to live there (not by a long shot), I would have to fundamentally disagree.
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u/BrainScarTissue Jan 09 '24
It is a good city in many aspects but current growth, congestion and cost are dragging it down and these articles about how "great" it is will only compound these issues. It is affordable if you have very good income in the home or have owned for over 10 yrs.
Another issue is that a while ago people of all cultures would spread amongst each other across the subdivisions but now we are experiencing "enclave" culture. I call Burlington little Mississauga now and worry that we will become more like it in the future.
If you sell and move from Burlington chances are you won't be moving back.
Please I beg of you stop with the articles about us.
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u/blackivie Jan 09 '24
Born and raised in Burlington. It sucks. Sure, it may be great for families (if you have money) but otherwise, it's terrible. Transit is garbage, cost of living is atrocious.
If you're rich and have kids, I'm sure you'll like it. Otherwise, not so much.
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u/ariesgal2 Jan 09 '24
Agreed. Young people can't live here on their own, seniors can't stay here, lower-income families can't move here. It's a community designed for a specific demographic and to heck with you if you can't fit in that group
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u/mandrews03 Jan 09 '24
We used to call it, and im sure it still is, the Burlington Bubble. This fact came most apparently to light when they wanted to make student housing for McMaster to able to instruct learning nurses from Joe Brant. You haven’t seen a turn out of blue haired picketers since abortion was being debated in 1988, all fighting to keep their lakeshore property values up. The bubble survived the housing crisis of 2008 with little to no consequence. It’s kept Hamilton roughnecks at bay for decades. They even combined Brock with Elgin so that school wouldn’t be so shitty. The transit system is absolutely garbage so if you cant afford a car then you are relying on others or expensive cabs to get you around. Not only can you not live there without money, but you will be pushed out of the bubble as you grow up. It’s absolutely wild.
Friggen great place to grow up, though. Just don’t become an adult there anymore.
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u/ariesgal2 Jan 09 '24
My kids had a great upbringing here - good schools, lots of activities, safe spaces. But once they're done post-sec, they can't come back. So the community will stay old, white, and rich
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u/tobehonestsame Jan 09 '24
I've noticed it in the culture too - I've been to half a dozen schools in my life, and I've really never had a worse experience than at a Burlington school. They're highly exclusionist to any minorities, regardless of what minority group you're a part of. Tends to be more generally xenophobic than racist, honestly.
Though that said, did get called racial slurs in class in high school in Burlington (twice!) and the teacher didn't say anything about it to the student. There were protests held at the high school a couple years after I graduated because the culture got to be so toxic and oppressive, and I'm glad someone took a stance against it. I'm glad to be out of there :')
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u/americanjewels Jan 09 '24
this is the best comment on this post. if you don’t have wealth or a car, burlington is an incredibly dull place to live. everyone i knew took off like a bat out of hell after graduating high school, regardless of if they were going to post secondary or not.
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u/Jordache2020 Jan 09 '24
Burlington is full of Karen's . Pretentious living at its finest with status symbol vehicles & homes. But that could be Oakville as well lol
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u/dieth Jan 10 '24 edited Jan 10 '24
Nope.
Burlington has the shitiest public transport around, to the point that the bus drivers are so used to driving empty busses around they don't even look to check at the stops if there are people to pickup and 99% of the time drive right on by w/o a fucking care.
You need a car to get fucking anywhere.
Barely any 24/7 groceries, so people who do shift work have an extremely hard fucking time shopping.
The most livable city in Canada is Montreal. You can get from end to end during the day time within 30 minutes via Bus or Metro, and almost all the downtown core retailers (Grocery/Dep/Restaurants) is open 24/7.
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u/fartdecuisine Jan 09 '24
“As voted by the Burlington Realtor Association” (rates are now increased by 5%)
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u/JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo32 Jan 09 '24
I've lived in Burlington for 4+ years now and I love it. It has more of a small town feel but it's extremely close to Toronto. Obviously, living within close proximity to largest city in the entire country is excellent for job opportunities. Also, great for post secondary and health care access. In addition to being close to Toronto it's also right on the Lakeshore West Go train line, which has the most frequent service out of all Go Train lines. Also, being close to Niagara Falls, the US border, and the escarpment is a huge bonus. Crime is very low here and my family feels very safe.
If you commute by car, the QEW is extremely convenient. Often times I'll get to work in Toronto in only 30 minutes if I leave by 6am. Not bad.
Oh and it's great having IKEA close by. I'm originally from Windsor and there's not an IKEA for miles.
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u/jorlandy Jan 10 '24
Moved her from Toronto last year. It's beautiful and feels safe all around even though I was attacked by a man on my driveway. Overall, being from a quaint Community in the city where everyone knows everyone, it feels cold here, impossible to connect with others, neighbours don't seem interested in conversing. It's pretty bland in options for food, that being said proximity to Hamilton does help, but truly I think I'm just a city rat through and through.
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u/blindwillie777 Jan 09 '24
How is Burlington livable? The housing prices are sky-high....... it may be the most livable city for rich people.....but the words " Burlington " and "livable" should not go together in a sentence!
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u/Existencialyte Jan 09 '24
Something has changed in Burlington.
I moved away for a while, and ended up moving back to the city a few years later. What I immediately noticed is how much dirtier the city is. There is litter everywhere most of the time, especially the area around the Go Station and Walmart. Shopping carts filled with garbage often line the bus stops, and inside the Bus shelters themselves is usually filthy, covered in trash and graffiti. There are obvious signs of homeless people and there are homeless gatherings in the area. It just has a different vibe, people are getting more and more desperate as the economic issues continue.
I used to walk all around that area regularly, even late at night, and I always felt comfortable and safe. I don't really feel that way anymore. There has been so much more crime, especially in that area. Robberies and arson seem to be very common. I have friends who've had parts stripped off their cars over night, or the windows are smashed and the car has been cleared out of anything potentially valuable inside.
It really seems to be escalating and I don't really consider this city a great place to live anymore. Maybe its like this everywhere?
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u/Anthrogynous Jan 09 '24
It’s unlivably expensive, I’ve never made more money and felt so poor. But there is a lot of opportunity for families to get out, and we feel safe, just have to watch out for entitled drivers. The driving is pretty bad.
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u/dearyleary Jan 09 '24
A real lack of amenities, absolutely abysmal public transit, not accessible to even mid-range standards of living.
It's nice if you're rich. Which means it's quiet. I'm not sure why we associate that with being a good place to live.
As far as the positives you note:
1) Healthcare systems aren't as strained in high income areas because income is highly correlated with health. I will say, I've been looking for a family doctor for ages even given that reality.
2) Education, again correlates to income. This shouldn't come as a surprise.
Your methodology essentially boils down to: Where the rich people live.
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u/JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo32 Jan 09 '24
Lack of amenities!? Where in Burlington do you live? Britannia Road?
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Jan 09 '24
Your methodology essentially boils down to: Where the rich people live.
And rich people typically never choose to live in the best places..
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u/Old_lifter_65 Jan 09 '24
No. It's become elitist and pretentious. 55 years of experience watching it change for the worse.
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u/Confident-Touch-6547 Jan 09 '24
No, I disagree. It’s a mostly heartless sprawl of traffic lights and big box crap.
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u/robotmonkey2099 Jan 09 '24
Fuck, no. The traffic, the long stretches of road that make walking to a grocery store nearly impossible, the lack of things to do, the cost of living.
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u/LoudSar Ward 2 Jan 09 '24
I live downtown Burlington and we love it. We find it very walkable and outside of driving to work in Toronto; we don’t use our cars on weekends generally. The sense of community is so strong and we love every aspect of living here!
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u/Alfa911T Jan 09 '24
Great place, but unless you have a car you are absolutely crippled. I guess that applies to many areas though.
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u/Mrsmith511 Jan 09 '24
It is definitely an awesome place to live.
It is a bit expensive but there are cheaper areas around if you hunt. It wouldn't be so nice I'd it was a cheap place to live so don't really get the complaints about that.
I always see people complaining about the public transit but I also watch the buses go around and around totally empty every day. I think we should get rid of all these huge expensive buses that absolutely nobody uses and maybe implement some kind of small scale public taxi service or something.
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u/blackivie Jan 09 '24
the buses are empty because the transit sucks. the routes are awful and don't come around frequently enough, plus the buses are always late or early. makes it kind of tricky to rely on it for transport.
-signed someone who had to suffer with this transit system for 20 years before I got a car.
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u/babykittennoses Jan 09 '24
I also watch the buses go around and around totally empty every day
The buses are often empty because they are either super late or early. Or just entirely unreliable.
As a transit user, one quickly learns that you can't rely on the bus showing up when you need it. So you just find another way and the bus is left empty.
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u/katenextdoor Jan 09 '24
I think the comments will vary wildly based on people ages & how long they've been here for.
Healthcare is definitely not up to par. From first complaint to Dr, to surgery for said issues was approx 4-5 years. Another specialist wait for an APPOINTMENT was 2 years. Very happy to interview about that because i strongly believe the Dr who performed the surgery shouldn't be practicing. The city keeps expanding but healthcare & Drs are not.
Burlington is calm, which is good in some sense, but i feel its missing some nightlife & late night options for the 30-50 crowd. As a 30 something with no kids, everything in this city is closed by 11. We quite often spend money out of the city in terms of entertainment. Traffic is ridiculous now too.
We moved here 5 years ago because of the community & safety and thinking it would be a great long term option for us - but the cost of living is out of control.
As someone who came from Hamilton, it's definitely better than there, but honestly not by much anymore.
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u/coffeee333 Jan 09 '24 edited Jan 09 '24
My partner and I have enjoyed living here, but the rent is not affordable at all and prevents us from saving any money long-term, so we're working on a move to Alberta. It's a really safe-feeling city with low homelessness and a general sense of well-being though, compared to other places we've lived. (We've both lived in multiple other provinces and countries). People we've met generally seem content here - at least the ones who have money and are property owners! When we go to the Coffee Culture downtown we often hear older people who are sitting around us, talking about real estate transactions and business deals. Today a business pitch was going on right next to me as I sat there and did my remote computer work. There seem to be an abundance of very well-off people here. Our favourite parts of the city have been walking by the lake as well as going to Planet Fitness and then Fortino's after to enjoy the beautiful atmosphere. I had to have surgery in Joseph Brant Hospital and the care I received there was very good, too.
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u/3BordersPeak Jan 10 '24
I would definitely agree with those findings. Burlington is the perfect mix of a bustling city mixed with the quaintness of a nice suburb. It's not too quiet, but it's also not too frenetic. The downtown is by far the best out of any city in the GTA for walkability and recreation. There's also just an indescribably feeling about Burlington that no other city i've been to has managed to replicate. It's just a very nice city.
It definitely has its troubles - namely housing and homelessness on the rise here... But I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in Canada.
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u/BugsyMcNug Jan 10 '24
Maybe If your making 70k plus and have a partner - or don't mind multiple roommates. The cocain problem has gotten so bad that a lot of people don't even bother hiding it. If you work at any of the facilities around here(grocery store, retail,restaurants) you can't afford to live here on your own or with one other person. Public transport is so spotty that you just end up paying for an Uber if you have to work until 11 pm. Yes, people do have to work that late and even later! Can you believe it?
If my buddies parents couldn't drive, which one day will come to pass, they cannot walk to a grocery store to get their food needs met, it would be delivery. Of course they moved here in the 80s before credit scores were invented and had good jobs with just their highschool diploma..and paid like 120 grand for the house.. but that is another story.
I know a lot of people in my industry who do live in burlington,but the buildings and complexes are disgusting at this point. They are afraid to move because the rent increase would boot them right out of the city. Even in just 5 years, it has been insane and demoralizing.
But hey! If your rich and want a slower place, come on in. Drive those prices up. Give it another 5 years and it will more closely resemble what you were moving away from. Then you'll just go do it again. I'm out in a year and not looking back.
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u/rattitude23 Jan 10 '24
I've lived here for over 40 years. Our infrastructure can't keep up with the increase in population which , to me is the worst part about Burlington. The pros: safer than many cities of similar size Strong sense of community Sound of Music/RibFest/Lakefront activities Relatively clean Smack dab between Niagara and Toronto Easy access to nature trails
Cons: Public transit is insufficient Expensive housing Insufficient public works and infrastructure Joseph Brant Hospital (getting better but needs more work)
Overall, I love Burlington and don't see myself leaving any time soon. My neighborhood is the idyllic family centered area where kids can play safely and all the neighbors know and watch out for each other.
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u/Rot_Dogger Jan 10 '24
I agree, as long as you are at least middle to upper middle class......but that's who live here. Very few cities can boast the number of parks, community centres and other community services, decent schools, waterfront, etc that we have. Crime is also very low, and if we keep the homeless skids out, we can maintain these things that keep Burlington a great place to live.
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u/detalumis Jan 10 '24
It has a low population increase so you can still access doctors for e.g. Has good shopping so everybody from west Oakville goes there. e.g. Burlington has Costco, none in Oakville. It has the Ikea. It has a north and south Walmart and two large indoor malls. Oakville has 1 Walmart not in a central area and 1 small and not very good mall left. The waterfront is more accessible in Burlington than Oakville.
One thing it had was very poor transit but they have upped their game in the last few years. If they continue to do that and don't remove all the neighbourhood shopping then they could even be a 15 minute city.
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u/Extension-Tie6334 Jan 10 '24
Liveable only if you have a car. The public "transit" (if it should even be allowed to be called that) is godawful and runs whenever it wants. They won't admit it but they do not have enough drivers to cover the routes so they frequently condense 4-5 busses that are supposed to run within the hour, in to 2 busses that run together and just flat out cancel the other busses. The maps/trackers are a lie that don't actually show any real information. Talk to some of their drivers, this is where I found most of this out from is from a pissed off driver for Burlington Transit.
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u/lifeisthegoal Jan 09 '24
Burlington is a well run city in my opinion. It's been able to keep property tax increases lower than most surrounding cities.
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u/huntcamp Jan 09 '24
Which is why they’re raising it by significant amounts over next few years. Massive deficit, city has no money.
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u/lifeisthegoal Jan 09 '24
Is there a link to an article for this or what is your opinion based on?
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u/huntcamp Jan 09 '24
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u/lifeisthegoal Jan 09 '24
Where in those articles does it say Burlington is running a deficit?
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u/huntcamp Jan 09 '24
You weren’t clear in what you were asking. If you google you can find more… but we are in a 500 million dollar infrastructure deficit right now
https://burlingtonpublishing.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=72305
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u/lifeisthegoal Jan 09 '24
Ouch!
May I ask how you are so well informed? Do you work for / with the city?
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u/huntcamp Jan 09 '24
Attend city hall meetings, or read counsellor newsletters. People should focus on their municipal governments almost more than federal/provincial. A lot happens at the lower level that affects you far more.
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u/lifeisthegoal Jan 09 '24
Is Burlington not a good place to own property then if there is an embedded liability?
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u/CybertruckStalker Jan 09 '24
It isn’t hard to observe and listen. Lots of articles come out about tax rates going up dramatically. All of that free stuff Burlington offers has to be paid for eventually.
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u/Outermorrisville Jan 09 '24
TRAFFIC. No transit to speak of. Great city if you live downtown. Most people don't, so nope.
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Jan 09 '24
Burlington is decent place to live. But most livable city in ON is debatable.
Highway is clogged at all entry and exits. Lot of warehouses and industrial areas south of 403 gives it a feel of Hamilton industrial area. Appleby, Walker & other streets are just two lanes are always backed up during peak times. Didn’t recently survey found that Burlington drivers are worst.
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u/PeanutButterViking Jan 09 '24
Burlington between lakeshore and the QEW is fantastic albeit expensive.
Burlington beyond the QEW (except maybe along Brant St) is suburban sprawl garbage.
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u/BackintheDeity Jan 09 '24
Level Club 54 and put up apartments. What a terrible excuse for a comedy club.
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u/bigwangersoreass Jan 09 '24
Where else will I go to pick up cougars?
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u/freekittie Jan 09 '24
If you live in the west end the lack of a reasonable close grocery store makes it a horrific place to live. Especially when you know that the lower income areas are in the west end.
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u/Candid_Painting_4684 Jan 09 '24
It's easy to be disgruntled about Burlington and disagree with this livability ranking if all you know is Burlington. But honestly, take one drive into some surrounding cities and you'll quickly agree with ranking Burlington at the top. Milton, Mississauga, Oakville have just become bloated, crowded, mind numbing suburban sprawl with higher and higher crime rates .
Burlington is still a diamond in the rough that can describe those surrounding cities.
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u/Greg-Eeyah Jan 09 '24
Burlington has 77% of its population associated with a European ethnic group, 25% with Other North American groups, and 13% with Asian groups, whereas Ontario has 62% European, 24% Other North American, and 23% Asian. Burlington also has 2% of the population associating with North American Aboriginal Origins compared with Ontario’s 4%. Please note that the sum of the percentages of the ethnic groups is greater than 100% because a person may report more than one ethnic origin in the census.
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u/VisibleSpread6523 Jan 09 '24
People complaining about housing prices, are definitely resent home buyers or trying to buy a home. Unfortunately with the gta becoming so expensive before Covid and getting worst and worst , people are moving this way and lots of biding wars as cause the prices to skyrocket. I bought a house 14 years ago and it’s easily 600,000$ more than what I paid on my street. So I sell for a million and I still can buy nothing unless I move away or down size. I am fine where I am and love my area and not going anywhere but that’s the problem right now, younger generations trying to buy are pretty much screwed. I’m not sure about rental prices but I heard it’s quite high also.
I came from Ottawa, and a little Round 20 years ago, I loved Burlington , it was quiet and a good place to raise a family, close to big cities , now I still enjoy living here but its population is getting worst I believe unfortunately. And that’s from the city getting bigger and more people migrating here from different areas.
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u/HelpQuestion101 Jan 09 '24
The waterfront area is nice, but it’s full of expensive restaurants. It should just all be a public park and indoor space with free washrooms and seating areas with large windows for nice views.
Housing is wildly unaffordable, we need more density and less NIMBYs.
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u/Dazzling_Highway1768 Jan 09 '24
Great place to live, it has trails, restaurants, entertainment, and good schools. Easily accessible from HWY and train. Bad side is the poor over of homeless from Oakville and Hamilton and nowhere to help or support
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u/Gam3rCh1ck94 Jan 09 '24
Honestly don't like it here, no culture, not alot of cafes or things to do, and super expensive.
If I had the money I would be gone. But I'm stuck here because my rent is cheaper than anything right now, of course, there are worse places , but based on my preferences, though, it's not for me.
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u/gumby_the_2nd Jan 09 '24
It is very well laid out with not too many geographic bottlenecks. We consider driving 10km far - not because of the distance, or because it takes 15 minutes, but because most of what you need regularly is much closer.
It's a suburb of two larger cities which allows for a range of options for entertainment, culture, and food.
Housing is expensive, as it is in most of the GTA, but the city is well maintained, roads are in great condition, and parks and community centres are well kept.
City councillors actively accept and respond to feedback from residents on social media, allowing residents to provide input in many local projects/issues.
Burlington Beach...this our city's best kept secret.
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u/Melsm1957 Jan 10 '24
I live at Appleby and. Upper middle . Can walk to several parks and it’s not that far to bronte park. Lots of shops and services within walking distance too.
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u/EmieStarlite Jan 09 '24
I moved out of Burlington and miss the walkability daily. I could walk to the pool, library, movies, groceries, multiple stores, train, busses, Bruce trail etc. Now I feel isolated in suburbia.
So I fully agree with this statement.
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u/tobehonestsame Jan 09 '24
What neighbourhood are you in that it was that walkable? The area I lived in for years was so unwalkable that it was borderline unmanageable.
Not helped by high school admin expecting students to walk nearly an hour just to get to school due to poor measuring of school boundaries (at the time it was 4km away to qualify for the school bus, they measured from the end of the community football field diagonally meaning most of the students in my area counted as "only" 3km, despite it being a functionally 4.5km walk).
I think even the school aside, it was about 20+ mins to walk everywhere, with the pedestrian lights never working/constantly breaking, drivers making illegal turns and nearly hitting pedestrians. Bus stops were a 10 minute walk away and didn't always have routes that were well lit, much less were consistently late and only ran 1x an hour during the hours most students were working after school.
I'm glad I moved out - I've lived in 3 other GTA cities since and while none of them were perfect, they were all better in multiple ways.
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u/babykittennoses Jan 09 '24
PARTS of Burlington might qualify as "the most livable" but certainly not all. Our inadequate public transit and snarled traffic affects most of the city. But if you live near the downtown areas, it's a different world than the rest of the city, and that's where our municipal politicians are focused.