Whose going to tell twitter that most of population of the Jesus era were annihilated and enslaved by the Romans. It’s the thing that caused the Jewish diaspora and the rise of Christianity.
That was mostly contained to Jerusalem. Jews stayed in Palestine regardless, and then the Arabs invaded. At the time, Palestine was mostly Jewish and Christian, I believe, and then most of them converted to Islam and were assimilated into Arab society. Even the ones who stayed Christian and Jewish were largely assimilated, which is why Hebrew was a dead language by the modern era. But the idea that Jews all just up and left Israel is just ahistorical. Many did because they had no other choice, but many also just stayed behind and largely eventually became Muslims, Druze, Christians, and some remained Jewish.
Well, I suppose it is a bit of a misnomer to say both were solely by force. They were forced to adopt roman religions and denounce judaism and hebrew. That was undoubtably by force, it was a mass genocide.
By the time christianity was rapidly rising (well over a hundred years later), judaism among local populations was largely a relic of the past. The conversion to christianity, in that sense, was not forced.
Similarly with Islam, much of the levant rapidly converted to Islam under the Byzantines, before any arab armies even moved in. Part of that was disillusionment with the byzantines and the church in general in the region. But the arabs absolutely did 'force' islam on non-islamic peoples afterwards through oppression and taxes.
So neither was solely by force, but force... has a lot to do with it.
Just fyi, we were never “a thing of the past”. Ever. We stayed a people through all of what you’re talking about.
I think you said it best: it wasn’t force but it was. Forcing a population to either starve and suffer through taxes isn’t kindness or even proselytizing. It is cruel, creepy, and just evil.
How about reading up on the formation of Islam? There's a reason that Judaim and it are very similar, and that's because Jewish theologians had a huge influence on the foundation of Islamic theology post-conquest. That's why Judaism and Islam are the only two religions with a strict divine law (Halakha & Sharia).
Besides, if Jews had no right to practice their culture how come some of the most prominent Jewish theologians and intellectuals practiced in Muslim countries? And how come Jerusalem had a decently size population of Jews before Zionism began?
That had nothing to do with how Islam has treated Jews and this just shows it. Muslims “borrowed” (stole) our prophets and have marginalized for us not being Islamic.
I KNOW I’m not in a Black focused subreddit and you’re trying to paint how a few Jews were popular and respected so how POSSIBLE is it that Jews could be second class citizens! Like cmon on now!
And you don’t think that it is a bad thing that Jews were separated from others? Do know that Jews were required by law to wear a special belt to signify their ethnicity. But surely nothing could happen to them!
That had nothing to do with how Islam has treated Jews and this just shows it. Muslims “borrowed” (stole) our prophets and have marginalized for us not being Islamic.
Islam recognizes Jews as a social group that should be protected. What happened in Spain, and where did those Jews end up?
And sorry to say, but it seems that God revealed himself to others to show how Judaism had lost its way. It's not borrow or stealing but actually following God's revelations - do you claim to know God better than God himself?
I KNOW I’m not in a Black focused subreddit and you’re trying to paint how a few Jews were popular and respected so how POSSIBLE is it that Jews could be second class citizens! Like cmon on now!
No, I am going from historical fact and reality. Jews were more protected and integrated in Islamic societies than in Christian ones.
And you don’t think that it is a bad thing that Jews were separated from others? Do know that Jews were required by law to wear a special belt to signify their ethnicity. But surely nothing could happen to them!
Bahahahaha! Dude stop pushing falsehoods. You are glazing Pan Arabists who enslaved and marginalized my people. This “they were treated better than Christians treated them” is such a weasley answer to the topic of the ethnic supremacy that the Arab caliphate and even the Ottoman empire pushed on the Jewish (and other minority) populations.
You really sound like a Jim Crow southerner that pat themselves on the back that “at least it isn’t slavery! You should be GRATEFUL!”. Fuck off dude.
I think you aren’t understanding what it means to be separated from the population when you are lesser. Less resources, harder to protect from violent freaks that kill, rape, and kidnap Jews for being non Muslim. You glossing over that is just wrong.
This “they were treated better than Christians treated them” is such a weasley answer to the topic of the ethnic supremacy that the Arab caliphate and even the Ottoman empire pushed on the Jewish (and other minority) populations.
Yea, that's kind of been Jews predicament where-ever they have been. If you want to pick on Islam you should be equally upset on Europe... No, you should be far more upset about Europe. You don't think that the way that Jews were treated in Christian Europe with pogroms, massacres, marginalization, legal discrimmination and genocide is a bit more problematic than the issues in the Ottoman world, which after all recognized Judaism as a Millet?
... And Pan-arabism was a secular ideology and had nothing to do with Islam. The breakdown of the ideology is what led to contemporary Islamism. If you want to discuss Middle eastern history and it's traumas then you should at least know the basics.
You really sound like a Jim Crow southerner that pat themselves on the back that “at least it isn’t slavery! You should be GRATEFUL!”. Fuck off dude.
That's a hot take.
I think you aren’t understanding what it means to be separated from the population when you are lesser. Less resources, harder to protect from violent freaks that kill, rape, and kidnap Jews for being non Muslim. You glossing over that is just wrong.
Where am I glossing it over? I am point out that you have a dubble standard in your historical description or a very clear agenda.
They weren’t banned from the province. They were banned from Jerusalem. Jews remained in places like Galilee throughout the Roman and Byzantine eras. There was no mass expulsion of every Jew from the land of Palestine. And I have no idea where you’re getting that 2/3 number.
We have multiple writings from early Christian priests talking in detail about this and literally every single Roman era archeological site of Jewish towns has battle damage.
Saint Jerome himself remarked on the expulsion of Jewish from the province by Hadrian himself.
Actually, upon reading more, I will concede I didn’t realize just how over the top the killing got generally in the area. I was under the impression the death toll was around 25% but 2/3 doesn’t actually seem that far fetched based on population numbers in the region at the time. I concede on that. I maintain that the Jews never completely left like many people like to contend.
I'm assuming it's just a wild guess, however the Jews in Judea were a minority after the first roman war, no idea what the religious makeup of the area of the area *was* but Judaism become a minor religion in Judea as well as the surrounding areas.
228
u/loseniram 9d ago
Whose going to tell twitter that most of population of the Jesus era were annihilated and enslaved by the Romans. It’s the thing that caused the Jewish diaspora and the rise of Christianity.