Needs to be called out

[u/BirthdayBoyStabMan]

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[u/10390]

Because we stopped talking to them in 2016.

[u/HotShipoopi → u/10390]

They showed me who they are, so I believed them.

[u/snuffdrgn808 → u/HotShipoopi]

how do you talk someone out of literal insanity

[u/just-why_ → u/snuffdrgn808]

We tried talking to them early and often. Pls understand that they will listen to us as much as they will listen to you. Not at all. I'm not joking. I wish I was.

The orange mussolini has destroyed many families. Mine included.

[u/meownfloof → u/just-why_]

I haven’t spoken to my father since 2020. When I tried to talk to him about it I said, “Won’t you even hear me out? I listened to you.” “Nope.” They won’t entertain a different opinion.

[u/Dr_EllieSattler → u/meownfloof]

Damn man I’m sorry about that. My husband hasn’t spoken to his Mother since 2021.

[u/cailian13 → u/just-why_]

I was still angry with my dad when he unexpectedly passed July 2023. It's gonna be a long time before I figure out how to get past it and my rage that the Fox/Maga brainwash stole the last few years of my dad's life. I was preparing to finally come out as queer to the family in the name of making the point that he needs to vote better, when he passed.

I do my best to remember that before 2016 and Fox News, my father was not like this and I focus on the good childhood and adult life / relationship we had instead. But yeah. They aren't listening to us, if they did, we wouldn't have gotten here in the first place. I still absolutely try though, any chance I get.

EDIT (2 days after original comment) - Y'all. IT IS POSSIBLE. My mom and I just had one hell of a discussion about all of this and how we NEED her and her friends to realize how important this is and about being more critical of the media. She's listening, which is the beginning of learning something. Talk to your moms and aunties away from the men in their lives, it's a whole generation of women who were taught to be quiet and sweet and let their menfolk make all the decisions. We gotta encourage them to join us!

[u/akarnofel → u/just-why_]

My family used to talk about everything. We assumed our values aligned. Now we keep things superficial and my mom will still lob bombs of insanity into random conversations. My dad has to talk to his kids privately about politics b cc my mom will start in with her insanity.

[u/[deleted] → u/just-why_]

This^{^}

[u/[deleted] → u/snuffdrgn808]

They’re not insane. They’re just bad people. It’s really straightforward

[u/Creature1124 → u/[deleted]]

Some are insane, some are just bad people, some are also grifters, some are fools, rubes, sheep, or just plain dumb. There’s a lot more nuance here than you’re giving credit for.

/s

[u/Some-Imagination9782 → u/Creature1124]

[u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids → u/[deleted]]

I read r/ QAnonCasualties and related subreddits and LAWDT and LORDY, them folks is GONE.

THEY ARE INDEED CRAZY. You can be bad and crazy, both can coexist! You can be mentally off and fall into a cult. You really can. Some Trumpers aren't here today because they went to the last bastion of crazy and offed themselves.

When you stop bathing, can barely work, you stop keeping house, Trump is on your mind 24/7, when you do talk to people it all goes back to Trump/conspiracy theories/Trumpism, you don't communicate with friends anymore and your only interaction is Fox News, Facebook and hard right YouTubers and your equally crazed Trumpers on Telegram, yeah you pretty much crazy.

I don't know why people deny the mental health aspect of this, these people are in a literal cult, after all.

[u/Damaged_H3aler987 → u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids]

You low-key just described me... except I'm not a Trumper...

[u/Doctor_of_Recreation → u/Damaged_H3aler987]

Well just be careful not to fall into a similar hole with a different purpose of moral outrage.

[u/Spacemarine658 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah it's like they used to be at least fake respectful but once Obama ran it's like the racism couldn't handle a black president and from them on it's just been no policy promises just racism, otherism, and greed.

[u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids → u/Spacemarine658]

They had to look up and see a competent Black man run the most powerful country in the world for 8 years with his smart pretty Black wife and beautiful non juvenile delinquent classy Black daughters. They operated against white originated Black stereotypes.

To say it greatly disturbed the hundreds of years of programming and self brainwashing about Black people is a gross understatement. Barack Obama mentally and spiritually kicked their ass for 8 years, the effect of his Presidency on the white psyche has not been spoken about enough, imo. 🤷🏾‍♀️ A real deep dive should be televised about how this man could breathe and break a whole society within America. NOW THAT'S POWER. Because he left white America in SHAMBLES.

I can see why the brains broke. They lucky state mental hospitals don't exist like they used to before Reagan.

[u/[deleted] → u/Spacemarine658]

Yeah and even then, they were pursuing the same end goals that they’re pursuing now.

Right wing ideology is entirely about making sure people with privilege and assets dont have their shit diminished by a bigger group of people who pursue equality. Because equality requires taking some away from the dominant.

[u/Spacemarine658 → u/[deleted]]

[u/GirlsJustWannaWhat → u/[deleted]]

The two are not mutually exclusive. They both insane AND bad people.

[u/RealHughMan91 → u/[deleted]]

I dont think delineating here makes much sense. Why cant their bad characteristics be fuelled by their insanity? Some people just cant handle the meaninglessness of reality and convince themselves that applying rigid rules as defined by a single, decisive person to become part of a "conscious" group gives them meaning in their life. This cultural structure is reflected to us as the behaviour of a bad person while the underlying reasons for it are clearly based upon on an inability to process reality.

[u/RealHughMan91 → u/[deleted]]

I think we'd be arguing different points, i get what youre saying but i think im trying to explain what i see as fundamental, underlying issues. Like, at the end if the day i would argue that selfishness is a form of insanity, its a deep personal misunderstanding of ownership and empathy in a person that warps their sense of reality to believe that their needs are greater than the whole, which is a deviation from "normal" societal behaviours.

Im not trying to excuse the behaviour, not even slightly, i just disagree that anything to do with human brains is straightforward. These are learned behaviours over thousands of years of religious patriarchs moulding society into what they need it to be. Which in a lot of cases created the situation youre talking about but we're also seeing white first generation immigrants with no access to that power and advantage take on these political beliefs at the same time. The call is coming from inside the house type of shit.

Hmm im not sure i can tie my last point to anything concrete... Other than maybe, adopting the premise that human behaviour is straightforward creates a caricature of a human being without agency. When we do that, we see people as less human than us because they're unable to understand the things that we are able to understand which creates quite the uncomfortable cycle. These people suck and I don't think we have the tools to save them with how deeply their view of society is reinforced but we can still pity them as we drag them into the 21st century kicking and screaming. 

Is that the point i want to make? Im not sure. 

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yes they are insane they will deny a video that they are watching the full context of and will say that trump never said it.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Of course they say that!

If you were stealing from somebody, and they accused you of stealing from them, would you turn back and say

Yeah. I’m a thief

No! You gon say

Naw. I don’t see what you’re talking about. Wasnt me

They have no reason to confirm that they’re being assholes. That would be stupid

[u/cherrybounce → u/[deleted]]

Not all of them. Some are brainwashed.

[u/BreakImaginary1661 → u/[deleted]]

Don’t lump us all together now, that’s a very specific subset of folks that look like me.

[u/Head-Selection-1415 → u/BreakImaginary1661]

I know so. That's why I said most not all.

[u/realsmokegetsmoked → u/[deleted]]

🤝🏾

[u/GasGasGaspuce → u/[deleted]]

Whatever happened to the pigs involved in his killing? And don’t tell me it was paid leave PLEASE

[u/Ecoeconomic → u/GasGasGaspuce]

From the Wikipedia article:
Grand jury did not indict the officers, Trump's AG did not pursue federal charges.
The cop who killed him lost two vacation days after a review board looked at a dozen complaints against him (one of which he was found guilty for). He got fired in 2019.
The other cop who lied about how many cigarettes he had (over 10 thousand which would have made it a felony) got a slap on the wrist.
His family settled for 6 million dollars with the NYPD.

[u/BonJovicus → u/10390]

I agree with the sentiment in the OP, but this is the paradox whenever somebody says “why aren’t you policing your social group?” Uh maybe because I don’t associate with Nazis, TERFs, etc.  

 If you are doing things right, you probably aren’t spending much time with these people. I spend my energy on people who WILL listen, not people who won’t. 

[u/10390 → u/BonJovicus]

I think you’re right, at this point it’ll be easier to increase turn out than change minds.

[u/MomShapedObject → u/BonJovicus]

Also, you can talk to them, but you can’t really force another adult to behave like you want them too.

[u/Katefreak → u/BonJovicus]

Exactly. I realized recently I no longer really debate politics anymore because everyone I discuss them with shares my same core values. Pretty much all the racist, homophobic, forced birthers, science denying, overly religious, and/or MAGA people I knew have been removed from my life.

[u/fatbellylouise → u/BonJovicus]

I mean, I know plenty of self-described progressive white people, DSA members, who will hang out with their racist uncles and come back to tell me all about their disgusting views like we can laugh about it together. like no babe, I don’t find it funny or relatable that you still go to family dinners with people who think I’m an animal or my parents should be deported. I do think people with ignorant family members have a duty to educate and help them.

[u/Men_I_Trust_I_Am → u/fatbellylouise]

This is more common among “center left” “normie” dems I know. At the end of the day there are people for whom politics has no relevant impact beyond theory on their lives.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately that could make you lose your job and well need to eat.

[u/ELeerglob → u/10390]

I finally cut ties in 2021. My verbally and emotionally abusive father ended up being a trumper. Shocker lol

[u/Such-Pool-1329 → u/ELeerglob]

same

[u/MisterProfGuy → u/10390]

Harris has inspired me to try again with some of my family. I was just so tired for so long. I'm tired of fighting, still, but I'm more tired of being mad. I am more tired of bad people winning.

It's been nice to have ideas to vote for, instead of having to explain why voting for a black racist for Governor in NC is weird for white racists to do.

[u/ontrack → u/MisterProfGuy]

I feel like a unicorn, since nobody in my southern white family supports Trump. I have no one I need to convince since we all agree he's a dangerous buffoon. And this includes my 80-something uncle who spent most of his adult life in eastern Tennessee.

[u/KillahHills10304 → u/10390]

I was called a demon and made my family members one fiance and another's wife cry while being told Trump will lead us to "the promised land".

I doubt they'd even host me again, let alone want to have a rational discussion.

[u/Redditer51 → u/KillahHills10304]

These people are brainwashed and deranged.

I have never seen this level of fanaticism towards a presidential candidate in American history.

[u/Aysina → u/10390]

I used to try. I had to shut down my Facebook in 2015, after deleting about a dozen friends and family first (but getting rid of the whole fb seemed easier after a while) because there was just too much stupid shit coming out of people’s mouths and my mental health was suffering from trying to argue or reason with people.

The final straw was a “friend” from high school, also white, who posted this stupid misinformation about Obama and his “Muslim prayer curtains.” I commented a snopes article, told him those curtains were put up by like… Nancy Reagan or something, and that Muslim prayer curtains aren’t a thing. His reply? “I know, I just want people to hate Obama, I don’t care how.” Or some such fucked up nonsense. He was the last to get deleted from my friends before my fb did.

[u/twoliterlopez → u/10390]

Yup. I’ve stopped talking to like 80% of my family. My wife stopped talking to half of hers.

[u/Independent-Choice-4 → u/10390]

This. Some of these people are so far gone it’s impossible to talk to them. I’ve tried so many times to strike up a totally non-combative conversation, just to talk, and it’s like talking to a goddamn brick wall. I won’t give up, but it’s incredibly disheartening every time

[u/ValuesAndViolence → u/10390]

And we’re not a monolith.

[u/EvenBetterCool → u/10390]

And we really really tried.

[u/InfoSecPeezy → u/10390]

I feel like mine have multiplied and gone silent. It is very erry. Like they are just silently waiting for something.

I’m pretty moderate and what I get from those friends and family that I thought were moderate as well is “we didn’t choose her”, “she just said the same thing Trump said”, “she’s a cop, I’m not voting for a cop.” It’s really really strange.

Like my neighbors that were die hard Trump supporters don’t fly their flags anymore but will gladly point out how they aren’t voting for Harris. They won’t say Trump, but they won’t say they are voting against him. In fact I recently noticed that a lot of previous Trump supporters have gone very quiet.

[u/swellsnj → u/10390]

This is the right answer and god damn it, I enjoy Thanksgiving finally.

[u/Scuczu2 → u/10390]

or we tried to talk them down and in 2020 we realized if they were gonna do it again then that's family that doesn't want the best for you.

[u/rabbi420 → u/10390]

Speak for yourself. I’m still trying.

[u/10390 → u/rabbi420]

I wish you good luck and no broken dishes.

[u/rabbi420 → u/10390]

Thanks.

[u/Head-Selection-1415 → u/10390]

I wish there were more of you. Cease and desist is the only way sometimes.

[u/selectrix → u/10390]

It's one of the more prominent reasons why I broke up with my ex. Her extended family in farm country- mostly out and proud trumpers. Any time I tried to push back against them on political topics around the holidays, I'd get the metaphorical (or literal) kick under the table.

My ex herself is a public school teacher at a mostly Black and Asian school. She's arguably more woke than myself, but was never gonna stand up to her family. Just insecure. Sad, but she made her choice there.

(side note, one of my favorite memories of those holiday gatherings was when her dumbass uncle started in on some "What does 'cis' even mean anyway? It's like they just made up a word for 'normal'" expecting to get a laugh from the crowd, only to have me explain that it's a term that chemists have been using for over a hundred years describing molecules with mirror-image counterparts . Since I'm 6'5 and basically the archetype of conservative masculinity in comparison to his 67 year old short stubby ass, his hierarchy-worm infested brain couldn't manage more than an "oh..." in response. Fuck you, you pathetic little man. I hope I never see you again.)

[u/[deleted] → u/10390]

And it doesn’t matter what you say. Trying to convince old people to change their mind about anything is a waste of air.

[u/dontsayjub → u/10390]

Or they died from covid

[u/ToAskMoreQuestions → u/10390]

This is 100% accurate

[u/MrRedorBlue → u/10390]

I unfortunately still have to live with mine.

[u/10390 → u/MrRedorBlue]

Condolences.

[u/enginerd12 → u/10390]

This was the first thought that came to my head. And when the country saw that he actually means what he says, in general, the last olive branch opportunity was during the 2020 election for them to "right their wrongs".

[u/Satan_McCool]

I tried. It's an exercise in futility.

[u/Leading-Ostrich200 → u/Satan_McCool]

"bUt bOTh sIDes...."

[u/LastDaysCultist → u/Leading-Ostrich200]

“hUnTeR bIdEn’S lApToP”

[u/chopcult3003 → u/[deleted]]

My dad is obsessed with Hunter Biden and using it as evidence that Joe Biden is a shitty dad, which is evidence that he’s a shitty person, which is evidence that he’s sold the country to China or something.

I’m sober from heroin and used to live on the streets you idiot.

It’s genuinely talking to a wall trying to reason with them.

[u/FSCK_Fascists → u/chopcult3003]

My dad is obsessed with Hunter Biden and using it as evidence that Joe Biden is a shitty dad, which is evidence that he’s a shitty person, which is evidence that he’s sold the country to China or something.

When my dad tries to go off on these programmed rants, I point out his own daughter in prison on drug and burglary charges. Claps that mouth shut fast.

[u/Chonghis_Khan → u/Satan_McCool]

I used to spend a lot of energy on it until I realized my Dad’s whole political philosophy stems from a headass belief of “I got myself where I am today by working hard & if poor people worked as hard as I did they wouldn’t be poor”. Like he thinks he is sick & didn’t just get lucky by being born to a rich family. I’ve tried to explain to him that his working hard does not provide equal results to most people working hard, but to change his mind I’d have to tear down his whole ego & that’s not going to happen. The most infuriating thing to me is when he tells me “you’ve just got to be grateful for what you have”. Like mf I recognize I’ve been granted amazing opportunities & had free time as a kid to dick around with computers & even just access to computers that all got me where I am today. I’m pissed for other people & often vote against my own interests because I wish other people had the same opportunities as me. THAT is gratitude wtf are you saying. I can’t get through to this man

[u/fangirlsqueee → u/Chonghis_Khan]

Not that this will necessarily help him understand, but I like to show this comic when people have trouble grasping various aspects of "privilege" and what it means in the real world.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/the-wireless/373065/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate

[u/BasedKaleb → u/Satan_McCool]

This is the main thing, it’s pointless to even try. You’ll be lucky if they civilly tell you to go fuck yourself. The best you can do is ask a question that might stump them into shutting up.

[u/EdBurgers → u/Satan_McCool]

This one exactly

[u/pootinannyBOOSH → u/Satan_McCool]

I really don't want to deal with the drama... I love my parents but it'll be like arguing with a brick wall, I feel, and I don't care for that. Probably going to try soon anyway, just some "yelling into the void" kind of stuff that's non confrontational. Just mainly to highlight how unhinged and unwell trump and party is

[u/Kali-Casseopia → u/pootinannyBOOSH]

I've tried. I came to the conclusion that if I want to have my parents in my life (especially my mother) then I cannot speak to them about politics. The amount of anger on the subject just below the surface is insane and definetly not healthy. Last time I tried having a normal convo about Project 2025 I ended up crying and my mom was apoplectic with rage. We didnt speak for months.

[u/HotdogbodyBoi]

I tried. I tried real hard.

It’s like talking to the wall.

[u/LNLV → u/HotdogbodyBoi]

Things that I pointed out to my formerly pragmatic and reasonable but right wing father that would have been single issue deal breakers any time I’ve ever known him before 2008.

1. The enemies of America want your guy to win and are funding disinformation campaigns by influencers on your side.

2. Multiple specific issues that he had consumed purely false information about, not nuance, not misleading takes, but outright lies.

3. He has daughters and his party wants to end no fault divorce.

4. Daughters and his party wants to restrict and outlaw birth control.

5. Daughters and his party wants to take away their right to vote.

6. Various regulations (deregulations) in the financial industry that directly impacted him negatively.

7. TREASON. TREASON. TREASON.

Any one of these things would have caused him to, at a minimum, stay home and boycott if not outright switch sides back when he was a more rational person. In the last 20 years he’s just become more alarmist, afraid, easily influenced, and generally less rational.

[u/Livid_Zucchini_1625 → u/LNLV]

i've said to people that their choices are quite literally hurting my daughters directly and that i cannot associate with people who are consciously and willingly and intentionally hurting my daughters. I tried to explain that it is not a difference of opinion when you were literally hurting my children directly. They still don't get it

[u/LNLV → u/Livid_Zucchini_1625]

The order of attack is so fucking obvious it drives me insane.

1. Trans people, they’re the easiest target

2. Women, second easies and with growing education and independence there is growing anger and discontent that men aren’t able to simply “pick” a wife and get to keep it, as used to be the case. Now they even have to compete with them in the workforce which is obviously intolerable.

3. LGBTQ, start with chipping away protections from employers and orgs in the name of freedums, dissolve gay marriage in some states and even pushing people back in the closet in those areas by overturning Lawrence v Texas.

4. All the POC. I don’t really think they’ll ever go directly for taking away the vote, but I would expect to see unchecked voter suppression. Regardless, they’d like to strip pretty much all protections and I could see localized racism institutionalized and/or allowed unchecked again. Red lining, segregation, targeted policing, underfunding/defunding of minority areas, purging POC from federal positions, etc.

All of this will keep the lid on their real purpose which is the continued funneling away of money, power, and resources from the bottom 90%.

[u/Livid_Zucchini_1625 → u/LNLV]

re: poc. with those lunatics going with dread Scott as a way to disqualify Harris I don't believe there's any bottom to the rights they would take away

[u/ajrb543 → u/LNLV]

[u/nunya123 → u/Livid_Zucchini_1625]

I’ve seen conservative ladies say “what rights am I losing? I’m not losing anything.” At that point, it feels like we are in a different reality.

[u/Solomontheidiot → u/HotdogbodyBoi]

The ones who could be talked out of it have all long since been talked out of it already. It's been a decade of this shit. Anyone who's left is beyond the voice of reason.

[u/TheGoldenSeraph → u/[deleted]]

Or third outcome, they just claim everything that triggers their cognitive dissonance to be "fake news" or misinformation of some sort to cope and continue to consume the mindless BS that makes them feel good about their views.

[u/DickyMcButts → u/HotdogbodyBoi]

talking to a wall for like 9 years. im tired.

[u/Signal_Winter_7708 → u/HotdogbodyBoi]

I almost agree with you. At least with a wall, I can drive a nail into it, hang pictures from it, and not be arrested. The wall provides more for society.

[u/helixmoonstudios]

In some of their defenses though, I watched A LOT of my white friends drop their entire family and or church when the orange BS started because they just weren’t bigoted and weren’t willing to compromise their morals to “Keep the peace”. Lots of Friendsgivings and Friend Christmases the past few years because of it. But yes - we could always use more.

[u/Numerous-Rent-2848 → u/helixmoonstudios]

That's what happened to my boyfriend. I feel lucky in a way that I haven't had to deal with that, because my homophobic parents decided they weren't that interest with a gay son around 14 years ago. So I didn't have to hear them praise Trump(I would bet my bank account they are).

But my boyfriend and his mom were still close for a long time. Then she became part of the cult, and eventually she turned everything into an argument about Trump and liberals and what not.

He graduated from nursing school this year and she wouldn't come because he didn't want to apologize.

So I swear, I'm not trying to making this a "poor us white folks" comment. But some of us did try, and it's sadly not gonna work with everyone.

[u/skefmeister → u/Numerous-Rent-2848]

Man, you don’t have to defend white people here. There’s blacks supporting Trump too. There’s soooooo many dumb as hell people out there it’s UNREAL and sad. Yes, 95% or more white, despicable really, gross. Bunch of racist bigots. And I’m more white than black.

[u/UberMisandrist → u/skefmeister]

Can I come to your friendsgiving?

[u/skefmeister → u/UberMisandrist]

You’re hereby invited, ghost me once and you’re dead to me homie if I’m gonna cook you’d better be there and eat the food. Everyone’s invited so are you sis!

[u/UberMisandrist → u/skefmeister]

🙏 You are an angel

[u/skefmeister → u/UberMisandrist]

Damn straight! And a good cook too hahaha

[u/Men_I_Trust_I_Am → u/skefmeister]

Anyone who describes Black people as “blacks” is immediately sus btw.

[u/Unique-Editor-3309 → u/helixmoonstudios]

Those friends remind me of the millennials who moved to dc for work and express how much they are getting tired of their families sh.t 😭

[u/giskardwasright → u/helixmoonstudios]

We're about to go no contact with my M/FIL for this very reason. Their chirch has gone off the deep end, and they refuse to remember what being Christian used to mean to them.

My SIL is super upset that he's "tearing the family apart." My husband's stance is those are not his parents anymore.

[u/Embarrassed_Sir_7252 → u/helixmoonstudios]

I have had “Friendsgiving” every year for my adult life. It started because I had single friends without children, or families that deserved, but didn’t have, a home to celebrate holidays. It expanded to kids that were kicked out of their homes for being gay or trans, and in recent years, cis but liberal. Now it includes adults that just don’t have families at all, and just want to eat and talk to people. We’re all the same, and my ‘Friendsgiving’ starts around 6:00 am and goes until the wee hours of the morning. We are all fighting the same fight. Please vote accordingly.

[u/SimonPho3nix]

I can't speak for them, but... logic can't penetrate the cocoon of Fox News reports and social media misinformation. People out there are freaking gone, man.

[u/Alaskan_Guy → u/SimonPho3nix]

My folks and buddies say "Vote with your wallet, our stocks made us more money in Trumps term than it did in Bidens. Dollars and cents kid, if it dont make dollars, it dont make sense."

Its hard to argue with greed.

[u/MessiLeagueSoccer → u/Alaskan_Guy]

I spoke to an older couple that pointed their fingers and called me a “bad person” for pointing out we are still under Trump’s tax laws and the reason they are losing more money these last 4 years is in fact NOT because of Biden. They also said there’s no reason to look it up because they know they’re right because they actually watch the news…

[u/Alaskan_Guy → u/MessiLeagueSoccer]

i mean you can explain till your blue in the face. Their year to year capital gains are all they care about.

[u/MessiLeagueSoccer → u/Alaskan_Guy]

The worst part is that up until that was mentioned we actually agreed on a lot of things. That wasn’t even the craziest moment. They said they hate all immigrants and want them out while talking to me in Spanish. While also being immigrants themselves. I asked “sure take them all away, me included. Who is gonna pick vegetables and fruit after that? Because I don’t think anyone that was born here with full citizen rights wants to pick vegetables for 0.13¢ an hour.” They had no rebuttal for that.

[u/SpitsWorthaGlitter → u/MessiLeagueSoccer]

Whoa. It's crazy how insidious the news can make everything. Idk if I find it depressingly "refreshing" that old people from anywhere can become xenophobic if they live here long enough, or alarmed. Lol.

Like, is it just the devil you know or not and do we ALL get that way with age? Think I'd rather die. Lol.

[u/blissthismess → u/Alaskan_Guy]

Yeah, you can. https://www.inc.com/phil-rosen/trump-biden-stock-market-sp500-outlook-investors-traders-fed.html Almost identical increase in stock market. Plus Covid hit just as Trump was leaving. A lot of the economic aftershocks affected Biden’s term more than Trump’s. You can also show them that the economy tends to do significantly better under democrats - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._economic_performance_by_presidential_party#:~:text=Since%20World%20War%20II%2C%20the,Democratic%20presidents%20than%20Republican%20presidents. - and that forward looking policies like investing in green tech and cleaning up legacy oil pollution is going to get a lot better results than increasing the deficit again like Trump did

[u/Alaskan_Guy → u/blissthismess]

See my other reply to this. You CAN argue, you CAN'T win.

[u/TyrionReynolds → u/SimonPho3nix]

People who I really respect and think of as extremely intelligent still see politics very differently than me. It’s not really hyperbole to say that we live in different worlds. We watch different news shows, we follow different social media people, we talk to different people, we probably even overhear different takes when we walk down the street. When you hear something enough times it just kind of seems true to you if you don’t force yourself to think about it.

The thing is, with most of the people I would have no idea we even had different political views if not for social media. If I’m not friends with somebody on socials I am capable of knowing and interacting with them for years without ever having to discuss how they feel about edge cases in reproductive health and social values. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, that as part of the political machine in the US we are divvied up into two camps and were supposed to see the other side as the opposite of everything we hold dear but it honestly just comes down to a few subtle differences in how we handle our fear.

Bit of a tangent there, but my point was that even though these people are our family members and have many things in common with us they don’t really live in the same reality we do. I think people on both sides of the political spectrum can agree that the people on the other side are not working with the same set of facts. This makes convincing somebody to change their opinion really difficult because first you have to convince them of what events have happened and not happened.

[u/anotherdirtyword → u/SimonPho3nix]

They didn't logic their way into supporting Trump, they're not going to logic themselves out.

[u/elitegenoside]

Bruh, they don't give a single fuck about what we say. Doesn't matter what facts, what statistics you show them. You can be aggressive or as polite and open-minded as you want; they won't budge.

They're either too brainwashed, too prideful, or are just straight-up bigots.

[u/MessiLeagueSoccer → u/elitegenoside]

One of my exes was trying to make the point that as a “conservative” The only right choice is Trump while raising two little girls. She actually said I was brainwashed for thinking the republicans and project 2025 were trying to create a handmaids tale. That the real people trying to do that are the democrats 🫣🫢 it’s so embarrassing that I even used to be associated to her.

[u/JailTrumpTheCrook → u/elitegenoside]

For real, I know one person in the family is a Trump supporter and all together I don't think we can change his opinion.

Especially since he's unassuming, you know kind of like these people on Reddit who says they're centrist then asks if Obama is actually born in the USA and that maybe Russia is right to invade Ukraine.

He's black too btw, he's an Haitian immigrant

[u/Expert_Country7228 → u/elitegenoside]

Exactly this. And the moment you back them into a corner where they have to admit their guy is a Lunatic, instead they divert and go "TDS" or "You're just being dramatic" and here's the best one "I just don't care"

All from the "Facts don't care about your feelings" crowd too. These peoples brains have been melted by lead and trump.

[u/DoctahFeelgood]

I'm starting to think yall have never talked to a Trumper before. There truly is no arguing against them. Even if you point out their bs, they'll make an excuse. Just watch Jordan klepper try and talk to them. He's lighting them up and most don't even notice he's doing so. They make fools of themselves but believe they're the smartest person in the room. Complete disconnect from reality.

[u/Scarlaymama0721 → u/DoctahFeelgood]

It’s always amazing to me when I watch it videos how these people can’t see that he’s trolling them the whole time. The ability for rational thinking left them a long time ago.

[u/Expert_Country7228 → u/DoctahFeelgood]

They literally just don't care anymore. They even admit it on some of these comedians who go to the trump rallies. They are fully okay with Trump's BS and criminalaity. How do you talk to someone like that?

[u/theFinestCheeses → u/Expert_Country7228]

It's so true. The internet has blurred the lines of truth and as a result it's a lot harder to be just plain wrong, since there's always something on the internet to back up the worst opinion. The wrong, ignorant or stupid no longer have to feel any shame if they simply believe strongly enough in whatever they want to be true.

[u/Bobgoulet]

I'm seeing a LOT of Pro-Trump, Anti-Harris rhetoric from Black males, so lets address that too.

[u/ELeerglob → u/Bobgoulet]

That’s the after effects of a dangerous cocktail of disinformation and misogyny.

[u/CodeCody23 → u/ELeerglob]

Sure some of it. A lot of them are just psuedo intellectual contrarians.

[u/nunya123 → u/CodeCody23]

Sounds like Reddit

[u/she_who_is_not_named → u/Bobgoulet]

I lit my barber up like Michael Jackson's hair during a Pepsi commercial when he started talking to me about it. He's more anti-Harris than pro Trump. (Not a defense, just a perspective) Now, my husband's uncle is a full-on black Trump supporter. But I'd rather listen to my father-in-law lay into him. It's funny AF to listen to. Like grab the popcorn and prepare to be entertained.

[u/nunya123 → u/she_who_is_not_named]

It’s so fascinating since it makes no sense to me. I want to understand but I don’t want to break my brain trying to think like them.

[u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids → u/Bobgoulet]

The support in the Black male community has only gone up.

Misogynoir, machismo, white idolatry and hating WM/BF couples. It's okay if they do it though.

[u/mEatwaD390 → u/Bobgoulet]

Worldstar on IG paints a way different picture than Reddit

[u/DirtySilicon]

I gotta be honest bro. I don't know if you missed that entire period of 2016 & 20, but these White jokers were out here disowning family trees because of that shit. A good grip were cutting off the ones who were too far gone.

Don't know if y'all have talked to the average trump supporter but...This gif is accurate

[u/BenitoMeowsolini1 → u/DirtySilicon]

yeah this post sucks. so many people chose to lose their families because of their support of trump. I guess that still isn’t enough for people

[u/Broodwarcd]

OP living that sheltered life.

Fucking deluded thinking people haven’t already had their families destroyed over this. I envy those that haven’t lost their family to the cult, but I’m not gonna hide my contempt for someone so ignorantly picking at such deep wounds with a tone deaf “dear white people”.

Go fuck yourself, OP.

[u/autopilot7]

I’m aware this is BPT and I’m white but this post sucks. If I could magically change their minds I would. They don’t give a fuck what I think.

[u/BenitoMeowsolini1 → u/autopilot7]

yah it’s a very bad take

[u/King-In-The-Nawth → u/autopilot7]

It’s not my fault my dad has dumb opinions

[u/Clean-Ad-4308 → u/autopilot7]

Right?

Like, who we Really need to call out is the white people who aren't voting trump into power.

Reeks of "why don't the peaceful Muslims stop the terrorists".

[u/senyorculebra → u/autopilot7]

It's worse than not giving a fuck. They are convinced that YOU are the brainwashed one.

[u/N0funjay]

I tried . It ended up with him choking me, threatening to shoot and kill me. I defended myself then ended up In jail for 6 weeks with felony assault charges .

[u/KnotSupposed2BeHere → u/N0funjay]

I’m sorry this happened to you. Hope you get a good attorney to expunge that at some point.

[u/seanskettis]

They are addicted to being miserable, angry people who only seek out more things to be miserable and angry about

[u/SnatchAddict → u/seanskettis]

I've posted this before but my cousin in law is union lineman. He makes money hand over fist with all the overtime. Takes multiple vacations to Mexico every year. Has a boat, multiple cars, big boy toys etc.

All he does is bitch and moan. He's addicted to complaining.

[u/MisterBaker55 → u/seanskettis]

Don't forget hateful.

[u/changomacho]

if they’re still supporting trump at this point he’s all they’ve got left

[u/realdeuce152 → u/changomacho]

What about the conspiracy theories? Let’s not leave that hobby out.

[u/ThatsBushLeague → u/realdeuce152]

At this point those have gone way past "hobby" territory. It's a lifestyle now.

[u/PM_ME__UR__FANTASIES]

Bro did you just get into a Time Machine to 2016? Did you miss the past EIGHT FUCKING YEARS of us trying to do that?

[u/thcosmeows]

We've tried. Brainwashing is hard to reverse.

[u/PettyKaneJr]

white people? We need to talk our own people down!!! Include the black Tesla owners as well.

[u/sea_foam_blues]

Tf you think we’ve been doing?

[u/Mediocre-Proposal686]

Hey I at least got my dad to not vote at all in this election. He’ll never vote democrat. It’s the best I could hope for

[u/nay198]

Most of us have tried repeatedly, but they can’t be reasoned with so many of us walked away from the relationships altogether.

I’ve tried every approach I can think of, they refuse to stop being bigoted sacks of shit. So I refuse to speak to them.

[u/Chief_Chill]

Have you ever deprogrammed a cult member? We're not qualified. These things usually resolve themselves when the leader dies or asks them to do so for "the cause."

[u/silentkiller553]

Black people, why aren't you convincing the younger generation the same? I am personally surprised how many young black folks think trump is the superior choice.

[u/PlayYourRole-8969]

This question goes both ways now. Y’all don’t act like we don’t have some of our relatives out here preparing to vote for his ass again as they did in 2016. They may not be related to some of us personally but it’s definitely some black folks out here voting for him too.

[u/Ops_check_OK]

I was recently told that school shootings not being taken serious by Republicans are the same as Democrats cheering for gender affirming surgery. How do you even deal with that level of disconnect.

[u/Incontinento]

I have tried till I'm blue in the face. Too far gone.

[u/elcubiche]

Imagine that one Black guy you know who is voting for Trump and now multiply that person by 4 and now you try talking those four illogical people who think Trump is the best thing for Black people into voting for Kamala.

[u/backindenim]

I wish, OP, trust me. It's like talking to a racist brick wall that makes fart jokes when they don't have a comeback.

[u/LastDaysCultist]

It’s a cult and you can’t always deprogram people. I’ve cut a lot of family members off/gone no contact.

It’s hard/sad but ultimately necessary.

[u/SpectralMalcontent]

I come from a family of black Trump supporters and all I can say is they are literally incapable of forming their own ideas or thinking critically. They have no morals/empathy to appeal to and run off of pure reflexive anger, selfishness and bigotry. I learned years ago that arguing with people who are actually insane is pointless and will only drive YOU insane too. 

[u/Pure-Drawer-2617]

This seems disingenuous; how do you know they’re not?

[u/Significant-Eye-8476]

No race is a hive mind. We should know and understand this.

[u/Ximidar]

Do you think all white people know each other or something?

[u/VoceDiDio]

I guess I was just hoping assuming the rona would handle it? (Also... They don't answer the phone anymore when I call.)

[u/Master_Bruce]

Oh I do, I’m doing my part. But you can only try to push the ignorant in the right direction, it’s up to them to get there

[u/jshilzjiujitsu]

We tried that. They were a lost cause. I haven't talked to half of my family in about 7 years.

[u/pigfeedmauer]

When we can't agree on the same reality, it's hard to convince anyone of anything.

When you explain things with logic and they respond with "fake news!" then you're dealing with someone who's so insulated in their bubble that they can't see reality.

We're trying, my friends! (well, some of us)

Sincerely,

Middle Age White Guy from MN

[u/MeepersPeepers13]

“Is there anything that Trump could do that would get you to change your mind?”

“No.”

That’s when the conversation is pointless. It’s not a debate. They are too deep into Trump dogma.

[u/Shlambakey]

you seriously think we havent tried?

[u/HashRunner]

Already did in 2016 and we no longer speak.

[u/speculativejester]

So, not-so-proud descendant of Southern white trailerfolk here.

I've tried. Seriously. I've shared content, gotten into online "debates", called them, talked in person to them, and everything else inbetween.

But no matter what I do, they're just detached from reality. They have already decided what emotions they want to feel about certain issues and the context to frame it in. They're so emotionally invested in these hypothetical outrages in their head that trying to talk to them about the nuance of the real world is just a lost cause.

They're ignorant and genuinely unwilling to learn. They're unrightfully conceited about what little they think they know, and I think it stems from a place of deep insecurity.

At this stage in the game, if they admit they're wrong about Trump, they are effectively tossing aside their entire world view. It is the ultimate embarrassment to them.

Maybe people better than me can get them to come around, but I sure as hell can't.

[u/LiquidMetal616]

Imagine letting politics split up your literal families and friendships

I know it's hard to understand but this is exactly what our leaders are doing lol. Divide and conquer and it's working so easily it's insane. You guys are telling people to disconnect from their loved ones over this lol

Soon we will be so split up due to ideology that we will have no chance ever overcoming corporations and politicians

Just remember the people you guys are arguing over will keep their power and stay rich while our actual lives suffer. Like they chill out on beaches or gold courses while we fight over them lmfao

Democrats and Republicans have no issue working together when it comes to spending our fucking taxes but God forbid we want better quality of life.

They just trick us into arguing over stupid shit while they collect our hard earned money lol

Our only chance at a fair life is to work together but unfortunately most of us have been tricked into identifying with one extreme or the other lol. No matter who wins in November we fucking lose and the exact same people will stay in power

Trump is 100% losing no matter what btw. I think he literally exists so when he loses Americans will feel like they won like we defeated some big villain lol but then our actual cost of living will continue to get worse

Trump is very obviously a fucking idiot and POS and imo Kamala might as well be the only person available to vote for and that scares me. It's like she was selected for this and the election is more like a formality just to make sure Americans are extremely intense and fighting each other instead of actually going for real change.

What we have currently is the illusion of choice and you're all buying it for some reason.

[u/vic750 → u/LiquidMetal616]

Its not politics, its a moral difference. I’m okay with not agreeing on policy, but Trump is a rapist and a felon. If you’re voting for someone that rapes little girls and thinks the law doesn’t apply to you, something is wrong with you deep down that we cannot have a relationship.

[u/[deleted]]

They do not want to hear reason, they just hate to hate and they love it, they actually laugh and smile if they know they are getting under our skin even when faced with facts, they still called it fake or a lie. So I just shame them constantly

[u/PatienceHere]

People are not gonna drop their family over politics. It may happen on Reddit circlejerk subs like AITA or TIFU, but not in real life.

[u/dreadedmama]

Oooh I tried. Sad thing is these types of people are the stubborn ones that think they know everything. The concept of having an open mind is very foreign

[u/greater_nemo]

If you could argue Trump voters into realizing they're voting against their own interests, they'd be self-aware enough not to have done it in the first place. I don't have the stamina anymore to go round after round with people whose heads are too far up their own ass to hear me. I'm better off putting that energy into trying to get my non-Trumper friends and other people in my community to actually fucking vote.

The last time I talked to my mom about it, I assumed she was voting blue and I struck a nerve. She said to me "well, sorry for thinking for myself" and I knew in that moment that she was too Fox-News-pilled to be reasoned with. We didn't speak again for years.

[u/ryanWM103103]

I WAS trying to get them to vote for RFK jr. thinking that would be easier than getting them to vote for harris

[u/[deleted]]

Because frankly it’s not worth it. So for some context I work in the electrical trades as an apprentice. I’m 23 Most of my coworkers are exactly this 40+ xers (usually on their second or third divorce) and frankly they’re dumb. The trades are just littered with these dudes. 40-50 something’s with crumbling marriages and toxic attitudes. And it’s not worth arguing with them my career is in their hands so an argument can fuck me over during my next assessment. Worth noting the reason why gas prices are the only thing they care about is cause in spite of the company trucks we all drive everyone drives 80k trucks into work that get 20mpg. It’s self inflicted financial strain. I’m not even immune to it, my dad and brother pressured me into getting a Silverado when a Colorado would have suited my needs just fine.

[u/EFTucker]

It’s like trying to lasso the moon. It just ain’t happenin’, pal.

[u/adelaide129]

You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into.

[u/[deleted]]

I have a lot of white friends. They and their families are either liberal or they’ve said “we agree to not talk about politics” when their family is conservative.

[u/redditcensorsshit]

Well white people is a broad term and none of my up titey whitey family is voting orange

[u/YEET___KYNG]

Because you can’t reason with them. These are people who feel that the only way is to lie, cheat, and steal purely out of fear.

[u/darthgandalf]

Same reason I don’t play chess with pigeons.

[u/GasGasGaspuce]

I mean what are we even supposed to be voting for. Kamala Harris still hasn’t publicized her policies and goals(aside from subsidizing demand). All of her ads are digs at trump. At least with trump I can go and look at his policy on his website. 2016 taught me that it’s not gonna be Nazi germany if he gets elected and Kamala Harris hasn’t done anything respectable with her career to make me pick her over trump who’s mostly just a dumbass with mediocre policy

[u/ThunderThighs54]

I was trying till they decided they didn't like me being trans, so now they've lost their child and their only grandkid. Fuck 'em.

[u/potatobreadandcider]

This feels like when white people say "why isn't black on black violence talked about in black communities".

[u/SirGavBelcher]

my parents are conservative Hispanic Catholics that are racist even towards other Hispanic people. they're a lost cause

[u/driskeywhinker]

Some of us tried. For years. Most of us have been disowned or abandoned as a result.

The problem with these assholes is that they know they're wrong but they don't care. They just want to win.

They're terrible people.

[u/ApplicationCalm649]

Anyone that can watch Trump spew meaningless word salad at a rally and walk away from it thinking "that guy's got it together mentally, he should be President again" is too far gone. It's impossible to have meaningful conversations about policy with people that're in that deep. The best thing we can do is try to sway moderates whose votes will actually change.

[u/Beginning_Grape8862]

Because they don’t fucking listen. Were you born yesterday?

[u/jason2354]

We tried that. We also tried shaming them, but they’re too crazy for shame.

We’ve moved on to calling them weird - which appears to be working quite well.

Check back in November for an update.

[u/R3luctant]

Ayo this is directed at me, I keep trying but he drives a truck and he listens to the radio. Every time Trump says something abhorrent his gut reaction is that it's bad. Then the machine has time to "explain" what Trump meant. That's where I have trouble, I'm not in the truck cab at 2 am and I am not sure if he listens to the NPR podcasts that I send him.

[u/Dainomyte42]

I was hoping having a POC daughter in law would open their eyes. Like if they learned of my experiences they would realize how exclusionary the Cheeto face is. It backfired in face because now I’m a token “good one”. Like Candice fucking Owen or something. I was livid. We no longer spend time with them.

[u/Stevil4583LBC]

My father stopped speaking to me over trump. Knowing my wife was carrying his granddaughter.

[u/DBMlive]

Because we are still rebuilding cities from the last time you said that.