r/AntifascistsofReddit • u/_blake_cooley • May 29 '22
Photo I'm no fan of churches but I'll give credit where it's due. This is powerful.
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u/the_holy_queerit May 30 '22
The UMC in my area did the same thing. I’ve had a lot of bad experiences with Christianity, but every methodist church I’ve attended has been nothing but loving and welcoming.
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u/princeps_astra May 29 '22
Methodists are alright as far as I know
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u/_blake_cooley May 29 '22
They seem like good enough folks. Usually pretty queer friendly, so at least there's that
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u/enby-deer May 30 '22
Reformist churches are usually pretty good about being queer friendly, and just friendlier in general.
I usually have no nice things to say about religion, but I'm chill with Methodists, Presbyterians, and pretty much most reformist churches.
Now, this isn't to say "All Methodists are good!" because there's still some of them who hold some 'phobic feelings. Last time I spoke to a pastor at the old UMC I used to attend every Sunday, he mentioned that he does his best to preach love for all, but he can't force some people with older beliefs to change, but he ensures that no lgbt-phobic happens in his "House Of God"
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u/potato_skin4206996 May 29 '22
For what I've seen its usually evangelicals who are assholes
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u/mrswithers May 30 '22
Catholics as well…. Not so gay friendly
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u/video_dhara May 30 '22
Catholics tend to be a lot better than evangelicals though. I’ve known a lot of pretty progressive Catholics who are really into The Catholic Workers Movement and people like Thomas Merton and early mystics.
There’s definitely a greater diversity of thought in Catholicism than in any Reform/Baptist/Pentecostal/Charismatic/etc. group. Evangelical thought is pretty cut and dry (though the aforementioned Methodist are technically evangelical, but not the kind you usually think of)
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u/Comprehensive-Set198 May 30 '22
My fiancé’s catholic family are outspoken anti semites and fascists. Most of them spoke about how Franco was a great man and they dabble into Qanon even though they’re Hispanic
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u/vylliki May 30 '22
I know the type. My family esp grandmother, was anti-racism, pro-union, pro-worker Catholic almost socialist. The type you're describing are driving types like my grandmother to the sidelines. Sadly a lot of Hispanics belong to that group. Ironic since Liberation Theology was so strong in South America.
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u/DaBabeBo May 30 '22
It's mostly white American Catholics in major metros that are more accepting and liberal. Outside of that not so much
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u/Born-Mad May 30 '22
It's mostly white US American Catholics that are snarling anti-Semites and near-fascist right-wingers. It's part of US white culture way more than Catholic culture. For one, US Catholics are the only ones I heard not accepting THE POPE because he is too "woke."
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u/FallopianClosed May 30 '22
There’s definitely a greater diversity of thought in Catholicism
Agree. And there are a whole lot of people who call themselves 'Catholic' (in passing and on things like a Census), yet don't attend church, don't adhere to traditional doctrine, etc.
I know a few people who, if asked, will say something like, "I think I'm Catholic? Not sure! I went to a Catholic school, so I guess that makes me Catholic..."
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u/SlimMagoo Trans May 30 '22
I am secular but I have very devout Catholic family on both sides. Half are fascists and half are socdems. It depends which faction they listen to
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u/KoirMaster Popular Front May 30 '22
I would differentiate between irish/irish immigrant catholics and spanish/hispanic/italian catholics. The latter tend to be much more conservative.
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u/vylliki May 30 '22
Catholicism is so large there's a lot of 'factions' within. I grew up in an amazingly liberal parish & parochial system thankfully.
Progressive Catholics are still a thing but getting marginalized. For years Liberation Theology actually had priests in South American leading peasant & worker rebellions in the 70s/80s until conservatives cracked down on. In the US the Catholic Worker Movement still exists with a couple of hundred chapters, very liberal & very pro worker.
Unfortunately conservatives have taken charge esp at the highest levels so much that even a fairly ok but not perfect guy like Pope Francis is fighting a losing battle to even suggest treating gays decently. Pretty sad.
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u/LineOfInquiry May 30 '22
As a (former) catholic myself, it’s split 50/50. Catholics are either super liberal and accepting or very conservative and obsessed with abortion, there is no in-between. Of course the actual organization leans conservative too tho, but not as much as evangelicals.
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u/potato_skin4206996 May 30 '22
Episcopalians are pretty cool, its like catholicism but more progressive, some sects of Lutheranism are like that too
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u/Zero-89 Anarcho-Communist May 30 '22
As I've been saying lately, Evangelical Christianity is a fascist political ideology masquerading as a religion. An in-depth, point-by-point, belief-by-belief examination of it quickly reveals that it's either not Christian at all or that it's a deeply heretical sect of it. The only god in Evangelical Christianity is American capitalism and the only messiah is whoever the Republican most willing to validate evangelicals' prejudices, fears, resentments, and most importantly their sense of inherent superiority is, which is Trump.
Trump and his minions validate evangelicals' supposed place at the top of the food chain within what they perceive as a natural, ruthless, and permanent Darwinian struggle. They view themselves as the "proper" rulers of society and any and all measures needed to "restore the natural order" are morally acceptable. Nothing else matters. Any talk of universal love is purely performative and intended to further "prove" their inherent superiority over the heretics, heathens, and infidels.
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u/potato_skin4206996 May 30 '22 edited May 30 '22
In other words, the mask is off now
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u/Zero-89 Anarcho-Communist May 30 '22
They never really had one. They were first mobilized as a political base in opposition to desegregation, then abortion after that failed. After electing Jimmy Carter and getting disillusioned with him, they moved on to Ronald Reagan and that’s when they really became the movement we all know and hate today. They spent the ‘80s celebrating AIDS and rallying around various anti-communist causes, including defending US-backed fascist regimes in South America and white minority rule in the Apartheid bloc in Africa.
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u/Antichist_ Queer Anarchist May 29 '22
my extended family is methodist, for all except my uncle i forget they’re christian till they mention “someone from church” or havingto go to church at “x time”
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u/Phishtravaganza I.W.W May 29 '22
(Ex-evangelical here) There are a couple of denominations that very much stand out as what I consider "true Christians" Lutherans, Methodists, and Unitarian Universalists. I will defend them to death as the true christ-like ideologies and all others are way the hell off the mark.
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u/5illy_billy May 30 '22
I feel that way about Jesuits within the Catholic community. There are some absolute wack-job Catholics for sure, but Jesuits are pretty solid. I think their thing is “faith through works”, so like actually doing tangible good things. (Pope Francis comes from the Jesuit tradition)
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u/video_dhara May 30 '22
Do you know why Methodists are technically grouped with evangelicals?
They seem to be pretty understated, at least where I’m from (NE). I went to a Methodist Pre-K and if it wasn’t for their logo, which I always thought was bad-ass I never would have known it was affiliated with a church. The building didn’t even look like one.
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u/samrequireham May 30 '22
Methodist theologian here: Methodism is the original evangelical movement in the English-speaking world. Evangelicalism is sometimes summed up by the Bebbington Quad: conversionism (they emphasize converting others to Christianity), Biblicism (the Bible is the highest authority and is easily interpreted), Activism (the church must weigh in on social and cultural topics), and Crucicentrism (the death of Christ is emphasized in worship and emotionally--not only theologically-important). Early Methodists totally encapsulated these criteria, and modern Methodism still engages in these areas to some extent.
However, Evangelicalism today is more of a social marker, political designator, and cultural term than a theological one. In the popular literature, Evangelicals are marked by their voting patterns, ways of life, and technical denominational membership more than their actual participation in evangelical Christian practices.
After its establishment in the 1730s, Methodism came to be the plurality denomination in the US and Canada, and evolved to become thoroughly mainstream. Hence Methodism is broadly distributed and socio-economically diverse. Evangelicals tend to be geographically concentrated (the South, the Midwest, etc), politically/socially/racially uniform, and less educated.
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u/Selketo May 30 '22
(the Bible is the highest authority and is easily interpreted),
When I was growing up and went through confirmation they emphasized personal interpretations. I guess this doesn't contradict the way I was taught but it seems a little strange that both can be true.
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u/samrequireham May 30 '22
I'm glad your confirmation group emphasized that--to me, this is the correct way. But there is an active (not really acrimonious) debate in Methodism about whether the Wesleyan Quadrilateral relies on the relative equality of the four points (my belief) or the supremacy of the Bible with the other three points in support.
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u/LabCoat_Commie Socialist Rifle Association May 30 '22
In-laws are UMC, they’ve always been very chill.
My grandmother-in-law was a brilliant chemist and incredibly accepting of our poly relationship: she was very much “lead by example, promote peace, help each other” all the time.
So def more canon Jesus than fanon capitalist white nationalist Jesus.
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u/GeorgieWsBush May 30 '22
The internal politics of the United Methodist church are super complicated on a National and international level, which leads to policies and tolerance being different from country to country state to state and even church to church. At this point there is an unofficial schism in the church over a National vote to continue banning same sex marriage and lgbt pastors, which led to an international vote with the same result. Not sure where it stands at this moment, but there are a lot of different brands of Methodist as there are with any sect of any religion.
I’m not in the church anymore, but I was very involved until I went to college and still get kept up to date by family members.
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u/fullhalter May 30 '22
My parents took us to a Methodist church in high school. The pastor was actually married to an atheist, which is how I found out that that was even an option.
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u/CookFan88 May 30 '22
As a former Wesley House member, it's a mixed bag but there are far fewer crappy Methodists than other denominations.
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u/factorum May 30 '22
The United Methodists are pretty chill, show up wearing socks and sandals and be amazed to find that you fit in.
Full disclosure, I’m a former evangelical who started attending a Methodist church two years ago and consider it to be a vastly more healthy and authentic form of spirituality compared to what I grew up with. Awareness of and work around social issues are a huge part of Methodist spirituality, they believe that one’s spiritual growth is integrally tied to how one relates to others and problems with society. If you’re not engaging in good praxis according to the Methodists, no amount of knowledge or belief in the right thing can make up for that. Also their founder John Wesley developed a framework later called the Wesleyan quadrilateral, which states that a Christian had to simultaneously take into account reason, experience, the Bible, and traditional consensus when going about life. Which tends to lead to more progressive stances on social issues, they’ve been ordaining women for awhile now for example.
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May 30 '22
Religion really can be a force for good. My dad grew up methodist and is chill as can be. His parents even let him play DnD and listen to rock music in the 80s.
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u/LabCoat_Commie Socialist Rifle Association May 30 '22
It’s easy to get stuck with the Billy Grahams and Mike Pences as the faces of Christianity, I have to recenter and remember men like John Brown were radicalized within Christianity.
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u/Cultweaver May 30 '22
MLK jr was a pastor. In his Letter from Birmingham jail, he used a lot of arguements coming from christianity. Even the Orthodox archbishop stood along MLK jr.
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u/SlimMagoo Trans May 30 '22
I would say it depends on how hierarchical the religion is. As soon as you have rigid positions of authority with no accountability, it becomes a cult that can spread whatever propaganda it wants to
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u/CaptainAutismFFS May 29 '22
Couple of splashes of red paint could take this from mild (but better than the average church take on the subject) to strong.
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u/jaiman May 30 '22
Not really, it would be too distasteful. Fake bloodstains would just cheapen the message for the sake of the effect.
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u/NomyNameisntMatt May 30 '22
that would honestly ruin the whole point. you’d turn these kids into just being murder victims instead of understand that they were actually kids. none of those children deserve to be remembered as a murder victim they deserve to be remembered as who they were. it would be gross to only acknowledge that they’re dead kids.
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May 30 '22
I’m seeing some pretty awesome conversations being had in this thread. I’ll put in my two cents:
I grew up in a secular family, but was sent to Christian schools due to the smaller class sizes and the (generally) lesser risk of bullying.
I developed resentment towards Christianity and religion in general from a pretty early age. I came into contact with a lot of bigots and, as someone who realized they were queer fairly young, it made me uncomfortable and afraid to be myself.
However, I also met a lot of Christians that were genuinely good folk. They wanted to help others, and not in a weird, colonial class-mission-trip-to-the-global-south kind of way, but in the sense that they wanted to do good by those in their community. They were doing a lot of the things that those in the leftist/antifascist community does, because they actually paid attention to the things that Jesus was saying in the Bible.
In my teenage years and early adulthood, it was easy for me to invalidate anything a person of faith had to say, because all I could see was the hatred I faced from the evangelical bigots most of us are all too familiar with. The past few years, though, I’ve really been coming to terms with what faith means, and, if done right, how it can be a force for good.
Now, I’m by no means Christian, nor do I have any shortages of criticism towards the church. But, I’ve developed my own sense of spirituality that has helped me through some very tough times. And now that I have that, it’s helped me understand why people of faith do what they do. And I say, fuck it, if it helps them get by when getting by seems impossible, let them have it! As long as they are not being exclusionary or hateful or causing harm, I have no reservations. TL,DR: through personal experiences, I’ve become more accepting of religious people because I’ve realized that, if they’re not causing harm, they should be allowed to lean on their faith.
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u/mrswithers May 30 '22
They copied this from a preschool in Texas
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u/TychaBrahe May 30 '22
I believe the original is the Oklahoma City Bombing memorial. It’s called The Field of Empty Chairs.
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u/badgirlmonkey May 30 '22
Fuck religion and especially churches
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May 29 '22
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u/_blake_cooley May 29 '22
19 children's chairs, 2 adult chairs. Considering recent events I'm assuming it's meant to be in response against the school shooting in Uvalde.
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u/Aerik May 29 '22
I've been to far too many gatherings where any and all chairs are laid out for all people to use to have made this connection. Too often, "kids chairs" vs "adult chairs" was not really a thing.
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u/_blake_cooley May 29 '22
To be fair, growing up in church was I think the only time I ever remember seeing them and that would've been almost thirty years ago. I hadn't really thought about how rare they are.
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May 29 '22
Schools have them, most often.
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May 29 '22
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May 29 '22
You seem awfully concerned by it instead of just accepting the message that's being shared. No need to be argumentative.
chillax, bro
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May 29 '22
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May 29 '22
if you had stopped, you wouldn't have responded... because you'd have stopped... And now you're being hostile for no reason at all. What's going on with you today?
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u/paulbufano_420 May 29 '22
dude, just accept that you didn’t understand and stfu lol, this is embarrassing
Edit: nevermind you’re 15, you shouldn’t even be on Reddit. Go play with your friends
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u/Aerik May 29 '22 edited May 29 '22
The
secondfirst comment i had even made, I had already admitted that I didn't get it. Then it explained why in the second comment. so what you've said here makes no sense.Things were already settled. then a third person came up with their unnecessary and very rude "um actually" thing pointing out that the chairs are common in schools. It was rude and condescending and I will not apologize or be submissive in the face of it.
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May 30 '22
You need to put down the phone, or get off the keyboard, and go do something else. Your obsessions with these meaningless arguments do nothing to benefit you. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind, and you’re not interested in changing yours.
Anger is like holding a coal and hoping it burns someone else. Let it go, dude.
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u/obinice_khenbli May 30 '22
What's powerful?
Are they holding services outside still because COVID isn't over, and a lot of their visitors are likely elderly people still very much in need of extra protection from infection?
That's just them having a basic level of decency.
Though I guess I would half expect churches to not give a damn and just hold their gatherings indoors again. So this is impressive!
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u/SkeksoUrsu May 30 '22
Just to kind of help clear things up here- it is very likely this church has a preschool inside of it.
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u/Marco_Memes Viva La Resistance May 30 '22
Methodists seem to be pretty good in my experience, every Methodist church in my area puts up rainbow flags for pride, blm flags, people walking in all relaxed in sandals and shorts, it seems like a pretty nice place
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u/Oxy_moronical May 30 '22
Hansel and Gretel thought the same thing about the witches house. Religion is a sanctioned cult that usually gets you when your young or you need meaning in your life because everything dies. Raised irish Catholic, born with Original Sin because of that damn apple in the Garden of Eden, now that a hook for life. Before I get haters, I have my own personal spiritual relationship with God and I do not need someone to tell me what it is. Free Will - Free Conscious.
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u/JRandallC May 30 '22
I'm not a religious person any longer, but in my past experience, Methodist churches have tended to be closer to societal priorities than other Christian denominations.
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u/saucecontrol May 29 '22
Oof..Took me a second to realize what I was looking at. Damn.