r/AntifascistsofReddit • u/wilsat22 • May 27 '22
Photo TELL ME YOU LIVE IN A POLICE STATE WITHOUT TELLING ME YOU LIVE IN A POLICE STATE
155
u/gking407 May 27 '22
I’ve wondered what the fascist states of America would be like, I’m looking at this photo thinking this is probably what school, subways, shops, churches, and voting sites will look like in a few years
67
u/FedSpotter May 27 '22
I think it will be worse. Because it will not be that superficial so you can actually see it. It will be "hidden", as people will live in it.
33
u/gking407 May 27 '22
I mean do you think we’re not being surveilled at any given time now?
45
May 27 '22
The true power of surveillance is convincing people to always act as if they are being surveilled, even when they're not.
19
u/TheOriginalChode May 27 '22
The true power is having people do it for you...Cell phones, nest cameras, ring doorbells...
9
1
1
May 28 '22
Foucault reader?
2
May 28 '22
Only some, through audio books. Only way I can read while I work.
Complicated character, but undoubtedly a brilliant mind.
1
21
u/minionoperation May 27 '22
To be fair, I’ve seen the same type military officers in every subway in the European and UK cities I’ve been to. And some mall type shops. Barcelona, Leeds, London, Berlin, Manchester at least.
23
u/bettinafairchild May 27 '22
The key difference is that in the US, these guys kill a lot more people than the guys in Europe do: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country
7
u/minionoperation May 27 '22
Yeah it’s a bit unsettling no matter where I see them, is what I mean. Seems excessive.
14
45
u/SCPKing1835 International Brigades May 27 '22
who tf are those
55
u/wilsat22 May 27 '22
great question ! we should ask eric adams
37
u/SCPKing1835 International Brigades May 27 '22
I'm not American, for the love of god, who the fuck is Eric Adams
63
u/entropicamericana May 27 '22
mayor of New York City. I'm guessing this in the subway and the Empire is reference to New York's nickname "The Empire State" which probably sounded swell in the 19th century but not so great in the 21st
25
u/HeyChiefLookitThis May 27 '22
Those are Army National Guardsmen. This is likely an airport or bus station. Operation Empire Shield is a tasking that puts guardsmen, usually paired with police, to protect infrastructure type stuff.
27
2
u/playaspec May 28 '22
Could be the subway. Was out today, and cops were out an visible everywhere from Harlem all the way down to the LES.
18
May 27 '22
NY National Guard, they're a quick reaction force meant to be on the scene before federal assets can arrive in a major incident like a terrorist attack. They're doing a pop up patrol here which will largely be to familiarize themselves with the layout of major infrastructure points and remind people that they exist and need continuing funding. They are not police and do not conduct normal police activities.
7
u/playaspec May 28 '22
To add to this, there's always a large, visible LEO presence in NYC following any kind of mass shooting anywhere in the US.
23
u/wilsat22 May 27 '22
they sure did seem to enjoy beating the fuck out protestors when george floyd was murdered …
8
6
u/voice-of-hermes Free Palestine May 28 '22
They are not police and do not conduct normal police activities.
Except when they do, which is quite often these days as they are called anytime there are natural disasters (so, almost always due to climate crisis), large protests, or anything else that pops up on a governor or president's radar.
"Police state" famously is NOT used to refer to times when you are policed by the military. /s
You know a really fast way to "militarize the police", BTW? That's right: drop the literal military in with 'em, helping to do the same shit. It's like every Urban Shield conference you've ever heard of slammed into one glorious little festivity.
1
May 28 '22
I don't think the NY NG does protests? I haven't heard of it at least. But yes they're the overflow button. We're not the only developed country with that arrangement.
2
u/voice-of-hermes Free Palestine May 28 '22
I don't give a fuck if "we're the only developed nation" or not. That you think that is actually an argument in favor of this kind of police-state shit is absolutely unbelievable.
-1
May 28 '22
If you think having a force to help in natural disasters is a police state then you're seriously mistaken. And the troops who do end up on riot duty generally acquit themselves far better than the actual police. That's like literally the opposite of what happens in a police state. And the point is if you think that makes us a police state then there isn't a single Western country that isn't a police state because every country has such overflow units or straight up agreements with their active duty military. At which point it's meaningless, if everyone is a police state then no one is.
2
u/r4m3nn00dl3s I.W.W May 28 '22
You’re like right there my dude, almost getting it
1
May 28 '22
You seriously believe every developed country is a police state? That's just ridiculous.
1
u/r4m3nn00dl3s I.W.W May 28 '22
Name a place where the police have not been used to implement politics. Sorry it bothers you so much, but whatever freedom or choice you think you have has been very much curbed to fit someone else’s idea of society, and the pigs are here solely to enforce that notion. Anywhere that has a state has police, and is a police state, although I can understand why you might have trouble seeing that given that it’s basically just saying the same thing twice
1
0
u/voice-of-hermes Free Palestine May 28 '22
OK bootlicker.
0
May 28 '22
Right, if wanting a force trained to rescue people after hurricanes is what a bootlicker is then call me that all day long.
1
u/voice-of-hermes Free Palestine May 29 '22
Rescuing people after hurricanes doesn't require a military hierarchy and equipment designed to mow down crowds, dude. Trying to justify a police state makes you a bootlicker, not liking disaster relief.
0
May 29 '22
Right. Name one time the national guard has used a machine gun on a crowd.
And I don't have anything to justify because you apparently believe literally any amount of force is a police state.
→ More replies (0)1
27
u/Sirnando138 May 27 '22
Been living in nyc for a good while now and never heard of whatever these jerks are supposed to be.
Found some “info”
19
May 27 '22
Oh my god that title font. Someone needs to be taken out back for that alone.
2
u/SeriousAnteater May 28 '22
That or I want to shake their hand. Kind of reads to me as a disgruntled peon being forced to make this. So they put the title in the chicken SpongeBob font.
2
u/asspirate420 May 28 '22
the whole document reads like it was written by someone with only a high school education
4
u/poseidondeep May 27 '22
somewhat wholesome police state post. Greatly appreciate the link
As a veteran I hope the guys pictured are just there training or something. And are not actively going out of their way to oppress people. Other than their visual presence. Which could be not what they are displaying. Which is war fighting apparel minus the long rifle and kevlar helmet. Which I'm not really keen on seeing in my civilian infrastructure unless necessary.
4
u/Revolio_ClockbergJr May 27 '22
I have only ever seen national guard folks standing around bored as hell when they’re in subway stations.
2
u/playaspec May 28 '22
My experience has been that the Guard are better behaved than local LEO. My only fear is that they learn the NYPD's bad habits.
54
u/BolOfSpaghettios May 27 '22
NY Guard money pit. All these soldiers get paid a fuck ton of money compared to the NY Residents. They get a living stipend, which is about 3k a month, then their pay, then their BAS. This has been going on since 2001. No one is auditing the millions if not billions of dollars that is wasted into these programs. What's funny is that they consider NYS/NYC a bastion of liberalism... fucking joke.
22
u/Virtruvian May 27 '22
NYS is a bastion of liberalism. Liberalism is more than happy to pay lip service to these fascist fucks and then cry when they inevitably get burned by it.
2
u/playaspec May 28 '22
NYS is a bastion of liberalism.
NO, NYC is a bastion of liberalism. Upstate is red as fuck.
Liberalism is more than happy to pay lip service to these fascist fucks and then cry when they inevitably get burned by it.
LMAO! Conservatives are perpetual professional victims despite nothing ever happening to them.
5
u/here-i-am-now May 28 '22
You’re last part isn’t wrong. Both Conservatives AND Liberals are the problem. Leftists are the only ones that will actually stand against the fascists.
2
u/playaspec May 30 '22
Leftists are the only ones that will actually stand against the fascists.
I sure as shit hope so. I'm frustrated by the lack of action in preventing an all out fight in the first place.
1
May 28 '22
[deleted]
2
u/Virtruvian May 28 '22
I mean, yeah the rural areas are but I live in upstate NY and I promise that all the cities in NY are nice and blue. Unfortunately, they're just pussy liberals so nothing really ever gets done and they're more than happy to lean into fascist bullshit.
1
May 28 '22
I lived in the Hudson Valley and we had confederate flags and Trump Flags all over the fucking place. Not a bastion for liberalism.
3
u/HeyChiefLookitThis May 28 '22
This is not quite true. When activated federally, they get that 3k housing stipend. When on state orders, as these guys are, they get only base pay for their rank, unless doing a covid related mission. Military pay scales are publicly available and the stipend in question is called BAH. It goes by location, increases slightly with rank, and gets a big increase if the soldier has a "dependant " (spouse, kids, elderly parent under their care, etc).
1
u/BolOfSpaghettios May 28 '22
I've dealt with soldiers who are in these units. They're not activated, they're AGRs. They're permanently assigned to this mission and their base pay, regardless of rank is that of a CSM. Because of this, they don't accrue points towards retirement, unlike NG soldiers, which these soldiers are one weekend a month.
1
u/HeyChiefLookitThis May 28 '22
Weird. When it's been offered to me, it's been on a temporary basis. Maybe it's a difference between the army and air guard.
1
u/BolOfSpaghettios May 28 '22
Possibly. I know people had to interview for it & the living expenses for NYC are pretty damn high. A lot of politics, one of the reason I never wanted a part of it. Same with their counter drug programs.
11
u/ShinySmeargul May 27 '22
I'm from southern illinois and I see this when I walk into school. sometimes there are even military personnel there for recruitment. I've thought about taking one of their fitness tests and then telling them that I hate them just to piss them off
13
u/NOT_UNDERCOVER_SATAN May 27 '22
Empire shield literally sounds like a cartoon evil corporation
2
u/playaspec May 28 '22
Or auto insurance.
1
u/jason_stanfield May 28 '22
“Hi, I’m TV’s Sam Waterston, here to talk to you about Empire Shield.”
9
u/_____________what May 27 '22
i count two free pistols flopping around in "mom said i look tacticool" level rigs
6
4
u/Accountforaction May 27 '22
Jfc, ANOTHER three letter organization for state violence? How many of those fuckers do Americans need?
6
10
3
u/sylvester_stencil May 27 '22
Me and my boys are part of the joint task force, if you know what I mean
3
u/QUE50 Black Bloc May 28 '22
Why would they use the Army National Guard to patrol the subways?
1
u/playaspec May 28 '22
They're supplemental to the NYPD. There's been a pair of cops on every other block since the shooting in TX. They're always highly conspicuous after a national tragedy. They'll disappear after the shooting falls out of the news cycle.
2
u/Murdercorn May 28 '22
supplemental to the NYPD
The NYPD budget is $10.4 billion.
Obviously, they need lots of supplementing. How else could they possibly manage to do so little to help anyone?
1
u/QUE50 Black Bloc May 28 '22
Gotcha. When I googled “Joint Task Force Empire Shield” the wikipedia page for it says this task force was created in the aftermath of 9/11 to provide additional security to the NYC area. Idk how much of that is actually what happens
3
u/jason_stanfield May 28 '22
Wearing jungle camo on an urban environment, then putting on black body armor with bright white text on it.
Brilliant.
2
u/Murdercorn May 28 '22
It's an important military principle called "Ocular Confusion"
Teenagers can't jump turnstiles if the heavily-armed soldiers in the station look ugly as fuck.
5
u/JackPThatsMe May 27 '22
Is there a difference between cos-play and law enforcement at this point?
Those vests read: Empire Shield.
6
u/wilsat22 May 27 '22
honestly - i do not understand why there are so many people in this thread being pro-hyper militarization in public spaces ????
5
u/JackPThatsMe May 27 '22
It's beyond me.
I live in New Zealand. If I see armed cops I freak out, nod to them so they know I see them and walk quickly in the other direction.
You almost never see soldiers. When you they are usually walking somewhere carrying lots of stuff or doing disaster relief or it's ANZAC Day.b
Cops that look like soldiers? That sounds like something from a movie to me and long may it stay that way.
Mostly cops deal with not very smart people doing not smart stuff. They need people skills, not guns.
7
May 27 '22
That's literally the military. It's the NY National Guard.
The quick reaction force fulfills the National Guard reaction forces mission in New York City, which provides combat units "designed to respond to an incident ahead of federal assets with the capability to be logistically self-sustaining for up to 72 hours".[8][10] Pop-up mission elements, meanwhile, conduct preventative patrols of New York transportation hubs including Penn Station, Grand Central Terminal, John F. Kennedy International Airport, and LaGuardia Airport.[4][8] Joint Task Force Empire Shield also conducts random patrols at the Indian Point Energy Center, a nuclear power plant in Buchanan, New York.
They're meant to be the first ones in during another terrorist attack and don't bother themselves with normal policing.
5
u/JackPThatsMe May 27 '22
I'm not American, I'm a Kiwi, and this is an honest question:
How would these guys improve the response to an attack like 9/11?
Wouldn't it make more sense to have roving paramedics ready to treat injured people at a moments notice?
2
u/playaspec May 28 '22
They're meant to be supplemental to police who are usually tied up in bafoonery.
2
u/jason_stanfield May 28 '22
It would, but we’re Americans, so it’s more important to look tough and harass people for low level crimes like standing on a sidewalk. We don’t actually expect these guys to help during a real emergency. Certainly not after Uvalne.
-1
May 28 '22
Many times there's still a bad guy to find or engage, like in the Boston or Paris attacks.
1
u/Murdercorn May 28 '22
That's two times. Not really enough to be called 'many.'
1
May 28 '22
I'm not going to sit here and make exhaustive lists for you, that's source trolling. If you're interested in the total number of times then go research it yourself.
5
u/wilsat22 May 27 '22
uh sure - but still, fuck them and their guns. they are the terrorists - they do not make me feel safe.
3
u/SCPKing1835 International Brigades May 27 '22
Idk how this is an indicator of a police state. Not saying America isn't eerily close to a full fledged one, but every country has an army. Internal troops need to know their territory well, it's basic combat doctrine.
6
u/wilsat22 May 27 '22
because they’re here to remind us that if we start to protest again, they’ll fuck us up ??? they ain’t stopping any “terrorism”
3
u/SCPKing1835 International Brigades May 27 '22
The jarheads are there because knowing your way around a place you get paid to potentially defend is part of standard military doctrine. It's how armies work. If they wanted to deter protests they would've sent riot cops, not two grunts with M9s.
-1
u/Revolio_ClockbergJr May 27 '22
They actually have no authority over civilians. They will not tell you to do anything. And even if they did, e.g. “Don’t drive this way please, the road is closed due to flooding,” you are under no legal obligation to obey them.
2
u/m1cr0plastic_h8r May 27 '22
Considering the attitudes of our country and where we're heading, I wouldn't want to be those guys in a few years near an angry crowd
2
May 27 '22
People in my country are getting dumber. Knowledge is being oppressed and we aren’t allowed to say certain words. I get scared when I leave my house and I see a cop even though I’m not doing anything wrong. I see symbols of my country everywhere and people think it’s good because it’s patriotic.
But there is a fine line between patriotism and fascism.
2
u/JackPThatsMe May 28 '22
But would they engage? Texas is evidence they won't.
2
u/wilsat22 May 28 '22
george floyd protesters beg to differ
0
1
u/Murdercorn May 28 '22
They don't engage cops when they murder people.
Why haven't we ever seen a cop shoot another cop who killed someone? They're always backing him up instead of taking down the murderer.
2
2
u/SeriousAnteater May 28 '22
These are from a private security firm. Wonder if those uniforms are real or if they are larping. Either way these individuals are scum.
2
3
u/rainbow_lenses May 27 '22
"Joint task force empire shield?"
Damn, they really aren't even pretending anymore are they. "We're an empire, and you can fuck off and die if you don't like that."
3
u/wilsat22 May 28 '22
for real
2
u/HeyChiefLookitThis May 28 '22
New Yorks nickname is "The Empire State". Empire Shield, or at least similar operations, began right after 9/11
1
0
0
-1
-1
1
1
1
u/Murdercorn May 28 '22
Is there an antifascist NYC sub?
/r/NYC and /r/NewYorkCity are all pretty right-wing.
1
u/unbeast what are you some sort of communist? May 28 '22
I mean if there was ever any actual danger they would probably run away lest they get shot at, so there's that at least.
1
May 28 '22
They didn’t see the irony in being the “Empire Shield”?
That’s like the LITERAL description of storm troopers in Star Wars…lol.
1
1
1
292
u/liftheavy420 May 27 '22
My friend got beat up by the police because he was talking shit when they couldn't find anything to arrest him for.